Hi John, Yes, it's not a sin. But clearly the Church does believe that the devil might have been involved in the first baptism, and they need to exorcise it better. I guess it makes that makes the first one a satanic rite instead of a sin.
I understand the need for a second baptism, just to make sure. And I know that a rite of exorcism is part of baptism anyway. But clearly something is fishy about the need to state the exorcism explicitly. My theory about that is the one above - a need to affirm the power of the Church. Granted, it's my personal opinion, and I don't have time to research that deeper. I just find it funny from the records that they exorcise only on second baptisms. I'm assuming that the record reflects the rite and a stronger exorcise was performed on those babies. João C. Ventura On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 3:50:13 PM UTC+1, John Raposo wrote: > > The practice is the same today. It was never a sin (and still is not) for > a layman to baptize a child in case the child was at risk of dying before > baptism. Note many children "batizado pela partrira", or "a avó" (the > midwife or the grandmother). That is still the case today. However, the > baptism is then recorded in the church where the child would have been > baptized and and another baptism "sub condicione" is performed in case > there was anything invalid about the first baptism (like not using the > Trinitarian formula). In hospitals throughout the US, many Christian (not > necessarily Catholic) laymen, e.g. obstetricians, nurses, etc, baptize > babies who are born with a potentially life threatening conditions, with > the permission of the parent, of course. > > Thank you for the clarification. > > John > > > > On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 7:45 AM, João Ventura > <[email protected]<javascript:>> > wrote: > Hello, Terri (and John), > > My experience in seeing the baptism records is that the priest conducts an > exorcism when the children had already been baptized by a non-priest. In > some circumstances, people believed the baby would die without being > baptized so they'd baptize them themselves. However, since these people > were not priests, before the second baptism, the priest would perform a > symbolic exorcism. > > In the records above, if you look carefully, you'll notice the reference > to the prior 'lay' baptism, which motivated the need for the exorcism. > > In the early Christian church, any Christian could baptize another. But > the power of the church would be threatened if normal people started doing > these rites.. Indeed, between 1860 and 1910, Portugal kept passing laws to > create a Civil Register, so that the birth, marriage and death certificates > could be managed by the Government and not the Church. Always with little > results, until the Monarchy was abolished and the civil society took that > power from them. I guess the exorcism was done to show the people that they > had sinned in baptizing the baby, and that a real priest was needed. > > João C. Ventura > > On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 12:36:43 PM UTC+1, John Raposo wrote: > > As I understand it, it was and still is part of the Baptismal ceremony. > Baptism is the pouring of the water over the head baptizing "in the name of > the Father,,,," etc. But before you get to the point, there is the > anointing with holy oils and the priest applying a grain or two of salt on > his thumb to the mouth of the baby. And then there is the rejection of > Satan, declared on the baby's behalf by the Godparents. Although I am not a > priest, I think the salt applied to the lips initiates a symbollic > expulsion of Satan from the newborn leaving him clean and open to receiving > Christ. Maybe there is a priest or religious on the list that can provide > clearer (and more accurate) information. > > John Miranda Raposo > > > > On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 12:12 AM, Terri <[email protected]> wrote: > I found it creepy by interesting that in a few baptism records I needed > for children in Ginetes, the word 'exorcismos' appeared. This does mean > exorcisms by a priest were performed right? or does this word have ANOTHER > meaning in Portuguese? I've attached two records below. > > Terri Santos > Researching Agua d'Alto, Agua de Pau, Ginetes, Vila Franca do Campo Sao > Pedro and Sao Miguel > -- > For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/ > group/Azores. 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