thank you Cheri
Do you happen to have Joao Ventura email adress?
Marcio Borba
Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com
Em Sábado, 1 de Fevereiro de 2014 15:33, John Raposo <marra...@yahoo.com>
escreveu:
Both Ernesto and José were politicians, Ernesto more so than José. That story
from Bretanha has a grain of truth to it. There were six deteriorating records
in Ajuda (going back to 1606) which are now at the Archives along with that
famous index of the now lost records.
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 2/1/14, Cheri Mello <gfsche...@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ernesto do Canto Index
To: "Azores Genealogy" <azores@googlegroups.com>
Date: Saturday, February 1, 2014, 6:46 PM
HI
John,
Great, now
I'm going to translate Latin! LOL And for those who
are curious, I can "kind of" read a teensy tiny
bit of Portuguese and get a vague gist of what is going
on. So I use an online translator to help me (I used
Google Translate) and then I go back, sentence by sentence
to see if makes sense and is grammatically correct in
English.
Google Translate has a "Detect
Language" button. So I pasted John's "Sic
transit Gloria mundi!" and let it auto detect. It
said it was Albanian and didn't translate it. Well, it
said, "Sic transit Gloria beat!" So I clicked
the arrow to the right of "Detect Language" and
found Latin and John said, "Thus passes the Glory of
the world!"
John R, I have a couple of
photocopied pages from a book somewhere. I haven't
looked at them in quite a while. So José do Canto was the
politician and not Ernesto? My memory may have morphed
their occupations together.
I remember seeing the pink building
at Furnas. I didn't know what it was and I didn't
go over there. Is the pink manor house falling into ruin
too, or just the church?
I knew by the time Ernesto do Canto saw
the records (1870s/80s/90s) some were lost and some had
deteriorated. I'll just use Achada as an example.
Because that is one of the freguesias that I heavily
research, I was very familiar with the film and the
condition of the books. The books were crumbling. When
the Genealogy Society of Utah (GSU, today called Family
Search) filmed, they literal filmed the fragments. What I
was viewing was a fragments from various records. It was
like a jigsaw puzzle someone needed to put together. Yet,
there was Canto's index, making sense of it. He must
have attempted to piece it together to create that index.
And in 1929, Rodrigo Rodrigues did the same thing. On the
front (title page) of Canto's index for Achada,
Rodrigues wrote that he tried to correct and amend to what
Canto did. So Rodrigues must have had access to the books
too and tried to piece those fragments together. These
guys tried real hard!!!
The first book of baptisms for
Bretanha exists. I was told it is kept in the current
priest's bedroom. Back in my AOL chat days, a man went
to Bretanha and met with the current priest. He pulled the
book out from under his bed and let the man look. The
priest told the man that when the government came to
"steal" the books to create the vital
records/civil registry, that the priest at the time
(1910-1911 or so) gave him all the books but kept the
earliest baptisms.
I don't know if the story has
evolved over time. Maybe the earliest book of baptisms was
being used or was misplaced when the books were to be turned
over or sent into the government. Maybe the priest did
withhold that one book as a kind of protest. I understand
that the way the government went about obtaining the books
to create the registry system created a lot of ill will.
Today (over 100 years later) it makes sense to have a
central registry and have the books in some type of
protected environment. Under a bed does not sound like a
good idea to me.
As for the man who went to
Bretanha...you'd have to give me time to think. The
only thing my brain is coming up with is Sev..... I think
that's part of his last name. And his email had a
"ix" in it, maybe for Roman numerals? Sometimes
that math brain in me remembers the weirdest things! And
if I find his email, it would be from 15 years ago and is
probably invalid :(
Cheri
On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 6:51
AM, John Raposo <marra...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Thanks Cheri for providing the
index. You are right; both Ernesto and José do Canto were
movers and shakers in latter 19th century
Azorean society and politics. José do Canto's mansion
and gardens in Ponta Delgada are now part of the University.
When you go to Furnas, there is a real gem of a neo-baroque
church right at the edge of the lake, and next door to a
pink chalet-manor house. That was José do Canto's
country estate and the church he had built as a mausauleum
for himself and his wife. Alas, the church is falling into
ruin! Sic transit Gloria mundi!
Ernesto wanted his index as part of the movement to
establish a civil registry (wich the church resisted). Even
in his day, many records had already been lost. Take for
example do Cant's index of Bretanha records which go
back no further than 1703. Yet, an 18th century vicar in
Bretanha developed an index of whatever records dating back
to about 1550 were still in existence. That index is all we
have left of marriages and births pre 1703 and there are
many gaps. The early records of Santo António, indexed by
do Canto, no longer exist. Thank God for his index!
John
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 2/1/14, Cheri Mello
<gfsche...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ernesto do Canto Index
To: "Azores Genealogy" <azores@googlegroups.com>
Date: Saturday, February 1, 2014, 3:13 AM
Translation (of sorts),
Ernesto do Canto, Doctor,
was born on 12 December
1831 in Prestes
on S. Roque and
died on 21 August
1900. He received his
bachelor's degree in Philosophy from
the University of
Coimbra on 25 July1856, was
a corresponding member of the
Royal Academy of Sciences,
Lisbon and was in other,
both national and foreign
scientific societies.
He was distinguished as a scholar,
historian and
genealogist, having
authored Arquivo dos Açores
and other publications of
recognized merit. He was
President of the General Board of
the District of Ponta
Delgada and one of the most
prestigious figures of the
Azorean society during
the nineteenth century.
He married in the
chapel of Nossa Senhora do
Amparo, attached to
the house-solar this family
in S. Peter Ponta
Delgada on 05 May
1859, with his niece,
Margarida Leite Canto.
Now that I've kinda fixed the English
(what's a house-solar) and fixed his
wife's/niece's name from Daisy Milk Canto back
to
Margarida Leite Canto (there are just some things that
should never be translated!) I'll share what I
know.
I
think Canto may have also been involved in politics. I
swear
I read that somewhere. I don't know if he went to
the
various churches to borrow the books (this would be the
latter 1800s) or had them sent to him. From the
original
books, he created indices of SOME families of SOME
freguesias. Maybe the families had some prominence,
maybe
they were important to him.
When was in Ponta Delgada, I looked at
Canto's indices and I copied some of them. The stuff
I
copied and typed up in Excel were the families that I
was
working on and where no film existed. The only index
I
have an entire copy of is Achada. I have a hard copy
that
was photocopied for me and I took it home and typed it up
in
Excel.
I asked for the list of Canto's
indices. I typed it up. So attached is how it was
written by Canto in the order that Canto wrote it
down.
The only thing I could not capture in Word is the bracket
{
going down the side where he indicated that this
particular
group of freguesias was from Ribeira Grande or Nordeste
or
whatever. I used Canto's spellings from the
1880s/90s. So it is in "old" Portuguese.
And what you see may not be what you get (if
you go there to look at these indices). Achada says it
is
for marriages only, from 1695-1729. Rodrigo Rodrigues
went
back through Canto's work and added more families
and
tried to clarify what Canto could not read. The index
starts in the 1680s and has more families than what
Canto
extracted or considered important (to him) or may be
prominent.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira
Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
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Cheri
Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira
Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
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