I spent many years researching the Philippines and the records (in Spanish) had the same exact term. And in my own family I saw my 2x great-grandmother having lots of children without her husband around, and then I found a marriage record at a later date, then saw all of their children's baptism carrying their father's name as well as their father being listed. I realized then, and understand the confusion with my own great-grandmother having being baptized with her mother's surname but was known only with her father's surname.
According to what I was told by a historian, it had to do with economics and when they could afford to get married, they would. This explained why in the church records for my grandmother's town a lot of people would get married on the same dates. Kalani On Thursday, July 10, 2014 2:57:37 PM UTC-7, IslandRoutes wrote: > > I have had the opportunity to work on lines in the Azores and Southern > France (not Portuguese...LOL) I noticed something that made me wonder > about terms. In France, there is an equivalent to Pai Incognito. It > escapes me at this moment, but it isn't important. It means the same thing > that the father is unknown. But, you almost equally see "fil naturel" or > something similar. This means the child was born to an unmarried couple. > It is followed by the name of the father and the mother. The father > claims his children in this case. > > I learned from other French researchers that up through the mid 1800s > (maybe later), many couples could not afford to pay the necessary fees at > the civil and church level. Instead, they set up house and started their > family as if they were married. They would save up money and then when > they could afford it, they would go do the necessary things to be > officially married. In these cases you always saw the children baptized as > fil naturel and with the father's name given. It was not an uncommon > practice amongst the poor. I have a couple in my tree in the 1780s. It is > a little peculiar when you find the baptismals then 5-10 years later you > find the marriage. > > This made me wonder about the Pai Incognitos in the Azorean records that I > have found. Was there a similar thing in the Azorean culture? Did couples > who were poor start their families without an official marriage or was this > something specific to France--or maybe even Southern France where my Dad's > line hails from? > > I really started to wonder about it after working on my cousin's Raposo > line. Her great grandmother had at least two children where the father was > Pai Incognito and her great great grandmother also had at least two > children where the father was Pai Incognito. I don't recall seeing > multiple Pai Incognitos in one family, and with mother and daughter, though > I guess I haven't really looked that hard since it wasn't in my direct line. > > Interested to know what others think. I have very little knowledge of > Azorean culture during the 1700 and 1800s. > > Thanks > Mel > -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
