I spent many years researching the Philippines and the records (in Spanish) had the same exact term. And in my own family I saw my 2x great-grandmother having lots of children without her husband around, and then I found a marriage record at a later date, then saw all of their children's baptism carrying their father's name as well as their father being listed. I realized then, and understand the confusion with my own great-grandmother having being baptized with her mother's surname but was known only with her father's surname.
According to what I was told by a historian, it had to do with economics and when they could afford to get married, they would. This explained why in the church records for my grandmother's town a lot of people would get married on the same dates. Kalani On Thursday, July 10, 2014 2:57:37 PM UTC-7, IslandRoutes wrote: > > I have had the opportunity to work on lines in the Azores and Southern > France (not Portuguese...LOL) I noticed something that made me wonder > about terms. In France, there is an equivalent to Pai Incognito. It > escapes me at this moment, but it isn't important. It means the same thing > that the father is unknown. But, you almost equally see "fil naturel" or > something similar. This means the child was born to an unmarried couple. > It is followed by the name of the father and the mother. The father > claims his children in this case. > > I learned from other French researchers that up through the mid 1800s > (maybe later), many couples could not afford to pay the necessary fees at > the civil and church level. Instead, they set up house and started their > family as if they were married. They would save up money and then when > they could afford it, they would go do the necessary things to be > officially married. In these cases you always saw the children baptized as > fil naturel and with the father's name given. It was not an uncommon > practice amongst the poor. I have a couple in my tree in the 1780s. It is > a little peculiar when you find the baptismals then 5-10 years later you > find the marriage. > > This made me wonder about the Pai Incognitos in the Azorean records that I > have found. Was there a similar thing in the Azorean culture? Did couples > who were poor start their families without an official marriage or was this > something specific to France--or maybe even Southern France where my Dad's > line hails from? > > I really started to wonder about it after working on my cousin's Raposo > line. Her great grandmother had at least two children where the father was > Pai Incognito and her great great grandmother also had at least two > children where the father was Pai Incognito. I don't recall seeing > multiple Pai Incognitos in one family, and with mother and daughter, though > I guess I haven't really looked that hard since it wasn't in my direct line. > > Interested to know what others think. I have very little knowledge of > Azorean culture during the 1700 and 1800s. > > Thanks > Mel > -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
