JR, Thank you so much. I can see the transcription both ways, Miz and Roiz.
Here's the context for why I am grappling with this knotty transcription: I have a marriage for Josepha Marianna my 5xGGM in Doze Ribeiras, Terceira in 1750. Her parents are clearly written as "Ignacio Martins" and "Maria Machada." However, there are no listings for this pair of names in the Terceira Marriage Index. There are three "Inacio Martins"in Doze Ribeiras (and/or Santa Barbara) in the Index dating to before 1750. The dates aren't particularly good fits (marriages in 1695, 1734, and 1737) and the wives' names are not right. Maria Machados are a dime a dozen, but Ignacio is one of the less common names so I thought I'd check to see if there were any other Ignacios in Doze/Santa Barbara married to Maria Machados. The one likely candidate I found was listed as Ignacio Rodrigues m. 1724, and this was the record I asked for help with. In this record Ignacio's parents are named as "Ignacio Roiz/Miz" and "Maria Glz" The Marriage Index has "Inacio Martins + Maria Gonsalves, Doze Ribeiras, 1695". With respect to the date, this works well for his parents, if the name in question is Martins. Of the few (8 or 10) Inacio Rodrigues's in the entire index, none are married to a Maria Gonsalves or even a Maria/Marianna in a likely time period (IIRC). So, I'm inclined to see the record in question as fitting into a Martins lineage better than into a Rodrigues one. But I'm obviously biased, and I do appreciate that my case is tenuous and circumstantial, at best. My case is also weakened by two of the more experienced members of the group both agreeing the transcription is "Roiz". Oh well! I do need to double check the other two Inacio Martins in Doze (m. 1734 and 1737), and I know I have to collect baptisms to confirm parent-child relationships. I had hoped to set aside my doubts about whether I had the right marriage record or not, but it will have to remain unknown for now. many, many thanks again for your help and advice, Linda On Sunday, December 13, 2015 at 9:51:44 PM UTC-8, JR wrote: > > Yes the second example does look like Miz for Martins. It also has dotted > I. However, the first sample looks more like Roiz to me, with accent over > z. In the first sample, you will see the name Maria clearly showing a well > defined M. In the second sample, it is clearly an Miz with less ambiguity. > This has always been problem even for the great genealogists. What to do? > Do your best and make notation. If you know the name to be Martins and not > Roiz, then you can just make a notation of your findings. If the Martin > name is carried forward without any Roiz, then you have your answer, If > both, you have a problem requiring more work. > > JR > > On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 12:16:09 AM UTC-5, linda wrote: >> >> >> Thanks so much for your reply JR. I can see it that way too. I will >> check the other records... >> >> ...hmm, and I'm back... here's a record written two years later by the >> same priest, Lourenco Gomes: >> >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-DOZERIBEIRAS-C-1694-1737/TER-AH-DOZERIBEIRAS-C-1694-1737_item1/P103.html >> >> In this case, the groom (again named for his father) is listed in the >> Marriage Index as Manuel Martins. To my eye, the abbreviation used by the >> priest again looks like Miz, accented. I think it is the same abbreviation >> as in the first record I linked to. >> >> There are several examples of the abbreviation in this second record. If >> you wouldn't mind having a look at them, I'd be much obliged. >> >> thanks again, >> >> Linda >> >> >> On Sunday, December 13, 2015 at 8:29:16 PM UTC-8, JR wrote: >>> >>> I would say Roiz because there is short symbol over the Roiz (the z), >>> and that is the usual short form for Rodrigues. However, if you spot Mtz >>> with same accent you may have a case. I would still go with Roiz because >>> that is what it looks like to me, especially the z. >>> >>> JR >>> >>> On Sunday, December 13, 2015 at 11:01:09 PM UTC-5, linda wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Group, >>>> >>>> I would like your opinions on this record, please: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-DOZERIBEIRAS-C-1694-1737/TER-AH-DOZERIBEIRAS-C-1694-1737_item1/P89.html >>>> >>>> I think the transcriber of the names on this page for the Terceira >>>> Marriage Index made an error. According to the index, the marriage should >>>> be for Ignacio Rodrigues. But, I believe it says the groom (and his >>>> father) to be Ignacio Martins. The priest's M's (as in the M in "Madre >>>> Igregia" second to bottom line) could easily be mistaken for R's, hence >>>> the >>>> error. >>>> >>>> I'd very much appreciate more experienced eyes than mine to double >>>> check. >>>> >>>> many thanks, >>>> >>>> Linda >>>> >>> -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
