Hi Linda, Even though the first one looks very questionable, I think it's Miz. I enlarged it on my tablet and there appear to be only 3 letters. While the first letter looks odd the second two are iz. I don't see an o in there to make it Roiz at all. In the second example I again see Miz. A few lines down there is Miz again with the accent over the z that JR mentioned.
In my years researching I have worked with both JR and Cheri and agree here with JR, keep note of both names until you can work it all out. But you are not alone, I too see Miz, we all go through this at some point. Good luck! Denise D'Antona São Miguel - Nordeste, Nordestinho, Algarvia Sent from my iPad > On Dec 14, 2015, at 2:49 AM, linda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > JR, > > Thank you so much. I can see the transcription both ways, Miz and Roiz. > > Here's the context for why I am grappling with this knotty transcription: > > I have a marriage for Josepha Marianna my 5xGGM in Doze Ribeiras, Terceira in > 1750. Her parents are clearly written as "Ignacio Martins" and "Maria > Machada." However, there are no listings for this pair of names in the > Terceira Marriage Index. > > There are three "Inacio Martins"in Doze Ribeiras (and/or Santa Barbara) in > the Index dating to before 1750. The dates aren't particularly good fits > (marriages in 1695, 1734, and 1737) and the wives' names are not right. > > Maria Machados are a dime a dozen, but Ignacio is one of the less common > names so I thought I'd check to see if there were any other Ignacios in > Doze/Santa Barbara married to Maria Machados. The one likely candidate I > found was listed as Ignacio Rodrigues m. 1724, and this was the record I > asked for help with. In this record Ignacio's parents are named as "Ignacio > Roiz/Miz" and "Maria Glz" > > The Marriage Index has "Inacio Martins + Maria Gonsalves, Doze Ribeiras, > 1695". With respect to the date, this works well for his parents, if the > name in question is Martins. Of the few (8 or 10) Inacio Rodrigues's in the > entire index, none are married to a Maria Gonsalves or even a Maria/Marianna > in a likely time period (IIRC). > > So, I'm inclined to see the record in question as fitting into a Martins > lineage better than into a Rodrigues one. But I'm obviously biased, and I do > appreciate that my case is tenuous and circumstantial, at best. My case is > also weakened by two of the more experienced members of the group both > agreeing the transcription is "Roiz". Oh well! > > I do need to double check the other two Inacio Martins in Doze (m. 1734 and > 1737), and I know I have to collect baptisms to confirm parent-child > relationships. I had hoped to set aside my doubts about whether I had the > right marriage record or not, but it will have to remain unknown for now. > > many, many thanks again for your help and advice, > > Linda > > > > >> On Sunday, December 13, 2015 at 9:51:44 PM UTC-8, JR wrote: >> Yes the second example does look like Miz for Martins. It also has dotted I. >> However, the first sample looks more like Roiz to me, with accent over z. In >> the first sample, you will see the name Maria clearly showing a well defined >> M. In the second sample, it is clearly an Miz with less ambiguity. This has >> always been problem even for the great genealogists. What to do? Do your >> best and make notation. If you know the name to be Martins and not Roiz, >> then you can just make a notation of your findings. If the Martin name is >> carried forward without any Roiz, then you have your answer, If both, you >> have a problem requiring more work. >> >> JR >> >>> On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 12:16:09 AM UTC-5, linda wrote: >>> >>> Thanks so much for your reply JR. I can see it that way too. I will check >>> the other records... >>> >>> ...hmm, and I'm back... here's a record written two years later by the same >>> priest, Lourenco Gomes: >>> >>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-DOZERIBEIRAS-C-1694-1737/TER-AH-DOZERIBEIRAS-C-1694-1737_item1/P103.html >>> >>> In this case, the groom (again named for his father) is listed in the >>> Marriage Index as Manuel Martins. To my eye, the abbreviation used by the >>> priest again looks like Miz, accented. I think it is the same abbreviation >>> as in the first record I linked to. >>> >>> There are several examples of the abbreviation in this second record. If >>> you wouldn't mind having a look at them, I'd be much obliged. >>> >>> thanks again, >>> >>> Linda >>> >>> >>>> On Sunday, December 13, 2015 at 8:29:16 PM UTC-8, JR wrote: >>>> I would say Roiz because there is short symbol over the Roiz (the z), and >>>> that is the usual short form for Rodrigues. However, if you spot Mtz with >>>> same accent you may have a case. I would still go with Roiz because that >>>> is what it looks like to me, especially the z. >>>> >>>> JR >>>> >>>>> On Sunday, December 13, 2015 at 11:01:09 PM UTC-5, linda wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Group, >>>>> >>>>> I would like your opinions on this record, please: >>>>> >>>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-DOZERIBEIRAS-C-1694-1737/TER-AH-DOZERIBEIRAS-C-1694-1737_item1/P89.html >>>>> >>>>> I think the transcriber of the names on this page for the Terceira >>>>> Marriage Index made an error. According to the index, the marriage >>>>> should be for Ignacio Rodrigues. But, I believe it says the groom (and >>>>> his father) to be Ignacio Martins. The priest's M's (as in the M in >>>>> "Madre Igregia" second to bottom line) could easily be mistaken for R's, >>>>> hence the error. >>>>> >>>>> I'd very much appreciate more experienced eyes than mine to double check. >>>>> >>>>> many thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Linda > > -- > For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right > that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
