Oun Kwon asks about a "shalom" received for Passover on April 24th. The likely explanation: April 24th of this year was 14th of Iyar, the date of Pesach sheni, or "second Passover." See http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/PesachSheni.html for a further explanation of this observance.
_______________________ Robert D. Rachlin Senior Director & General Counsel Downs Rachlin Martin PLLC 199 Main Street PO Box 190 Burlington, VT USA 05402-0190 Direct line: +1 (802) 846-8327 Switchb'd: +1 (802) 863-2375 Mobile: +1 (802) 734-6280 [email protected] ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 12:00 To: [email protected] Subject: b-hebrew Digest, Vol 124, Issue 33 Send b-hebrew mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of b-hebrew digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sefer 'Iyyob and YHWH (Isaac Fried) 2. Re: hieratic bible? (Will Parsons) 3. ????? (Mike Burke) 4. Passover was, or Passover is in 2013 (Oun Kwon) 5. Re: Passover was, or Passover is in 2013 (Yodan) 6. Passover was, or Passover is in 2013 (Yigal Levin) 7. Re: ????? (Yigal Levin) 8. Re: ????? (Pere Porta) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 11:35:29 -0400 From: Isaac Fried <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Sefer 'Iyyob and YHWH To: Yohanan bin-Dawidh <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" All these are generic designations, from the uni-literal root L, 'up'. ADONAY ????? is from the root ADN, or it is the compound AD- HU-HEN-HI. Isaac Fried, Boston University On Apr 23, 2013, at 4:19 PM, Yohanan bin-Dawidh wrote: > The terms ?????, ???? and ??, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-hebrew/attachments/20130424/c06cf52e/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 22:26:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Will Parsons <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] hieratic bible? To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Tory, (Sorry for getting your name wrong in my previous response.) Since this thread is shutting down, I'll try to pack as much as I can into my one allowed reply... On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 09:12:04 +0800 (SGT), Tory Thorpe <[email protected]> wrote: > Will: > > A Moses figure (real or not) would have been literate in > Egyptian. We can at least put that question to rest. As I wrote in my previous reply, I don't think it can be taken for granted that even royalty were necessarily able to read and write in the complex hieroglyphic/hieratic script. > The question is what script and language would he use? What script > would Asiatics from Egypt and always on the move use? I'm thinking a > cursive script for fast transmission and recording of information on > just about any medium available, i.e. stone, rocks, leather, > limestone, ostraca, parchment, or whatever. Yes, cursive is much easier to use with a variety of media than cuneiform is, but the Egyptian writing system required a lot of study to master. > You wrote: "So if Moses wrote in it, it would have been in Egyptian, > which would be unintellible to non-Egyptian speaking Hebrews." > > They presumably were all capable of understanding and speaking > Egyptian by the time of the Exodus even if only relatively few were > literate. I don't think we can presume that. One can argue that: o The Israelites were in Egypt for an extended period of time, so of course they all learned to speak Egyptian. o It appears that the Israelites were pretty much located in a specific area and formed a cohesive enclave within Egypt, so they probably kept their language and only some them spoke Egyptian. Which of these (or other) possibilities is closer to the mark is a matter of speculation. But if the Hebrews entered Canaan being essentially Egyptian-speaking, and with an Egyptian-language torah, there's a lot of explaining to be done... > I do not see it as improbable the idea that hieratic was > used to write some Hebrew words. Writing "some Hebrew words" is a lot different than writing an extended narrative. > The Arabic script seems to have some connections to hieratic. I don't think so. > What I am saying is that a narrative composition in the 15th century > BC, in the region of Egypt/Canaan is more likely to be in hieratic > than anything else since the examples that survive are just that. Examples of what? Egyptian? Are there any examples of any Canaanite language written in hieratic? > Even 1,000+ kilometers in Assyria and Babylonia, their narration, > story telling, and even their year-names and annual limmu name > recording were probably all written first on perishable mediums in a > cursive script prior to being copied on non-perishable medium of > clay tablets with a stylus. Why probably? Is there any evidence they did? The very form of cuneiform reflects the fact that it was developed using clay as a medium. They didn't have the supply of papyrus the Egyptians had, but they had plenty of mud. --- In a reply to Karl you wrote: > Hieroglyphic is consonantal writing system (bi- and tri-consonants) > with hieratic being a cursive and much faster way to do it. It can > be used to "write" Hebrew easier than Akkadian cunieform -- which is > where I jumped in to disagree with Jim. Hieratic is also just as > easy to use as the method for writing Hebrew adopted on this > b-hebrew list: i.e. ")" for aleph, "B" for beth, and "G" for gimel, > and "$" for shin, etc. Hieratic writing is also much faster than > carving or chiseling proto-Sinaitic or proto-Hebrew unto stone which > takes time. Are there any examples of this other than the > non-perishable types? So maybe the "ten commandments" were written > this way on two tablets of stone in the non-cursive script, but not > the larger Pentateuch in books which needed a cursive script, not if > all of it was written down in the 15th century BCE and then copied > and updated in the centuries that followed. Any introductory book on Egyptian will show a hieroglypic "alphabet", each of whose glyphs has a hieratic equivalent, so we have what could have been used as a hieratic "alphabet". But I've put "alphabet" in quotes for a reason - these sets of symbols never (that I know) seem to have been actually *used* as an alphabet, but only as part of a script that also included more complex phonograms, logograms, and determinatives. A hieratic alphabet *could* have been used to represent other languages, but assuming it *was* so used is pure speculation. (The Meroitic alphabet was derived from Egyptian hieroglyphs, but that was much later than the period we're discussing, and on the other side [South] of Egypt.) -- Will Parsons ?? ?????????, ???' ?????. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 21:12:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Burke <[email protected]> Subject: [b-hebrew] ????? To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Can ????? mean "apart from" ? Michael Gerard Burke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-hebrew/attachments/20130424/8eb17333/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 01:19:13 -0500 From: Oun Kwon <[email protected]> Subject: [b-hebrew] Passover was, or Passover is in 2013 To: [email protected] Message-ID: <camxosszqzba_atvfmbbrxhq-cpggj5ug5ms-mxzpsvsxet1...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I thought we had the Passover last month (March 24 - Nisan 14) I got a shalom from someone who says he is keeping Passover today. (Apr 24 - 25) (Ref. www.yhrim.com/5995_GMT.pdf or www.yhrim.com/5995_EST.pdf ) It must be something to do with how a Hebrew calendar ddetermines the 1st day of the lunar month and when the new year begins with Nisan 1 (not Tishri) in a Hebrew calendar. Please forgive and ignore if this is out of bound of the list and kindly give me some help to solve off list. I don't see any other place who may have answers related to Hebrew and O.T. Oun Kwon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-hebrew/attachments/20130425/d9b188f7/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 23:37:11 -0700 From: "Yodan" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Passover was, or Passover is in 2013 To: "'Oun Kwon'" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Message-ID: <5512E2C1D216424BAAA81CA33411A7B2@RivkaNewSonyPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesach_Sheni The link explains the celebration of "second Passover" exactly a month after the main festival is celebrated. Yodan _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Oun Kwon Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 11:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [b-hebrew] Passover was, or Passover is in 2013 I thought we had the Passover last month (March 24 - Nisan 14) I got a shalom from someone who says he is keeping Passover today. (Apr 24 - 25) (Ref. www.yhrim.com/5995_GMT.pdf or www.yhrim.com/5995_EST.pdf ) It must be something to do with how a Hebrew calendar ddetermines the 1st day of the lunar month and when the new year begins with Nisan 1 (not Tishri) in a Hebrew calendar. Please forgive and ignore if this is out of bound of the list and kindly give me some help to solve off list. I don't see any other place who may have answers related to Hebrew and O.T. Oun Kwon <https://app.yesware.com/t/4b2b85b3dd5e5b8df7fc912598180d040a1b24c4/b8b48824 bfaebb06effb1b67e24896e4/spacer.gif> <http://app.yesware.com/t/4b2b85b3dd5e5b8df7fc912598180d040a1b24c4/b8b48824b faebb06effb1b67e24896e4/spacer.gif> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-hebrew/attachments/20130424/b9c60206/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 11:57:06 +0300 From: Yigal Levin <[email protected]> Subject: [b-hebrew] Passover was, or Passover is in 2013 To: [email protected] Message-ID: <004a01ce4192$dd20fb80$9762f280$%[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yodan, full name please. Oun, the person who greeted you may have been a Samaritan. The Samaritans had a "leap year" (adding a month of Adar) two years ago while the Jews did not, so the Jewish calendar is a month ahead of the Samaritan calendar. Indeed, the Samaritans held their Passover sacrifice on Monday night and are now in the middle of the Feast of Unleaavened Bread. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC1XRB06tr4 for a previous year's sacrifice. The two calendars will coincide again next year. Yigal Levin From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Yodan Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 9:37 AM To: 'Oun Kwon'; [email protected] Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Passover was, or Passover is in 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesach_Sheni The link explains the celebration of "second Passover" exactly a month after the main festival is celebrated. Yodan _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Oun Kwon Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 11:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [b-hebrew] Passover was, or Passover is in 2013 I thought we had the Passover last month (March 24 - Nisan 14) I got a shalom from someone who says he is keeping Passover today. (Apr 24 - 25) (Ref. www.yhrim.com/5995_GMT.pdf or www.yhrim.com/5995_EST.pdf ) It must be something to do with how a Hebrew calendar ddetermines the 1st day of the lunar month and when the new year begins with Nisan 1 (not Tishri) in a Hebrew calendar. Please forgive and ignore if this is out of bound of the list and kindly give me some help to solve off list. I don't see any other place who may have answers related to Hebrew and O.T. Oun Kwon <https://app.yesware.com/t/4b2b85b3dd5e5b8df7fc912598180d040a1b24c4/b8b48824 bfaebb06effb1b67e24896e4/spacer.gif> <http://app.yesware.com/t/4b2b85b3dd5e5b8df7fc912598180d040a1b24c4/b8b48824b faebb06effb1b67e24896e4/spacer.gif> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-hebrew/attachments/20130425/ab0be491/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 12:01:48 +0300 From: Yigal Levin <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] ????? To: [email protected] Message-ID: <005a01ce4193$850db8b0$8f292a10$%[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mike, it would be easier to answer your questions if you gave us the context. Yigal Levin From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Burke Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 7:13 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [b-hebrew] ????? Can ????? mean "apart from" Michael Gerard Burke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-hebrew/attachments/20130425/6d0ebffb/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 12:57:50 +0200 From: Pere Porta <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] ????? To: Yigal Levin <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Message-ID: <can2c6qmxx08+uffuwwbm1bev+bnao4yxjyda1_0vb6vtmyr...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Indeed, Mike. As Yigal says, the word as you're writing it, rather means "felts", the plural of "leved", "felt". Firendly, Pere Porta (Barcelona, Catalonia, Northeastern Spain) 2013/4/25 Yigal Levin <[email protected]> > Mike, it would be easier to answer your questions if you gave us the > context.**** > > ** ** > > Yigal Levin**** > > ** ** > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Mike Burke > *Sent:* Thursday, April 25, 2013 7:13 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [b-hebrew] ?????**** > > ** ** > > Can ????? mean "apart from"**** > > **** > > Michael Gerard Burke**** > > _______________________________________________ > b-hebrew mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew > > -- Pere Porta -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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