On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Michael Smethurst wrote: you're not wrong. we do do a fair bit of user testing around this stuff and > attempt to match what we model to audience mental models. it's not always > easy tho. we also need to consider how programmes are grouped outside of web > pages - eg series record on pvr, podcasts etc. for all your examples below > consider what happens when u press series record - what do you expect to be > recorded? >
Sounds good. I hadn't thought about the series record button. (It's only recently been added to Freeview, or at least my PVR has only recently been updated to use it - it's so so useful, I used to have to set up recording times based upon search strings, so thanks to whoever got that to work.) > > Part of the problem is that it can all be so complicated, and there are > tons of edge cases! > > more edge cases than not. knowing when to stop modelling is the tricky part > Indeed, and if the [relative] success of microformats vs Semantic Web has taught us anything, it's that simple can be better. > > What's the relationship between Doctor Who and Doctor Who Confidential? > They are different programmes, but very closely related (part of the same > brand, but also a 1:1 relationship between individual episodes). > > we'd say they're 2 different brands grouped by a franchise. series record > dr who and u don't get DWC! so far we haven't modelled episode > episode > relationships (episode <depictsMakingOf> episode) but franchises (horrible > word but the best we could come up with) are coming soon > Sounds good from a modelling perspective, pity the language is a bit counter-intuitive. For me, 'Doctor Who' is the brand, DW/DWC/etc are the 'shows', and the individual programmes are 'episodes'. But I guess it doesn't matter too much. Interesting question is whether Torchwood/Sarah Jane Adventures fits within the Doctor Who 'franchise', or is linked in some other way (Freebase has the concept of 'fictional universes' which I quite like). > > How about the relationship between Doctor Who Confidential and Doctor Who > Confidential Cut Down? Are they different versions of the same show, or > different shows? Same issue for Have I Got News For You and Have I Got More > News For You. One the one hand, TV shows (and films especially) have always > been edited down or extended as different versions, on the other hand, > HIGNFY and HIGMNFY are marketed under different names on different channels. > > the closest we've come so far is different brands with different episodes > that share some segments!?! > Tricky indeed! I'd be tempted to call them different versions of the same show, and treat them the same as versions with sign language interpretation, etc. After all, where do you draw the line between a slightly edited show and a more radically extended/cut-down show? A similar problem is what to do with omnibus editions (eg of Crooked House, shown over Christmas). From a PVR perspective if you pressed series record on the omnibus edition, you wouldn't want to record the individual episodes, but if you pressed series record on, say, the second episode of the three-parter, you'd want to at least be given the option of recording the omnibus so as to catch up on the one you missed out (nb. this actually happened to me - I missed the first ep). From a data modelling perspective, well, erm... > > How about the Doctor Who Christmas specials? Which series do they fit > into, the beginning of a new series or the end of the last one? Or are they > their own 1-part series? > > they belong directly to the doctor who brand. ie they're not in any series. > pips supports a mixed content model so a brand can have a combination of > child series and child episodes > Nice. Although it'd be good if you could capture the chronology in some way (the fact that the such-and-such Christmas special fell between series 2 and 3). You could rely on the first broadcast date as a workaround though, I guess. > > What about the Doctor Who Children in Need Special (apologies for all the > Doctor Who examples) - should they fit under both the Doctor Who and > Children in Need brands, or just one or the other? > > NEVER mention CIN around BBC data modellers. it makes them whimper > Heh. The show-within-a-show problem that Children in Need presents crops up more often than you might imagine. I think kids tv shows, Comic Relief, and maybe T4 (?) and the old Big Breakfast show all do it. It always frustrates me when the TV listings have one big long show down in the schedule, but I only really wanted to watch a show within it. > > Finally, it'd be nice if you could model the 'theme nights' that every > broadcaster seems to be doing now (a tactic by the schedulers to hold onto > viewers for hours at a time). Currently these don't seem to get represented > on the BBC website at all, despite being trailed heavily on air. > > seasons (in the uk sense) are also coming soon. these will provide a way of > grouping transmissions, ondemands and content (episodes). could be used for > theme nights or longer seasons (radio4's current darwin obsession eg). Sounds good. > All of these changes will also be make to the programmes ontology very soon > http://purl.org/ontology/po/ Look forward to it. Any chance of making the document a bit easier to understand whilst you're at it? (I had to read it half a dozen times before I understood, and even now I'm not 100%). Some concrete examples of shows would be a help for starters. I think half the problem with the Semantic Web is that it's so damn difficult for people to understand (even web developers...). Have you thought much about how it applies to radio btw? The structure of radio shows seems to be quite different from TV. One pet bugbear of mine is the way that 'stand-in' presenters are dealt with. It might be presenter A's usual slot in the schedule, but if presenter B is filling in, then it's really presenter B's show. Yet within listings and the now/next data it's treated as if it was still presenter A's show. You even get the madness of presenter B telling listeners to e-mail in by sending to presenter A's e-mail address! (This problem is the reason why my Radio Pop profile shows me as having listened to quite a few of George Lamb's shows - in reality I was listening to his [much better] fill-ins). > > > Frankie > > would u like a job? : ) > No, but feel free to contract me through http://www.rattlecentral.com :-) Cheers, Frankie Roberto
