If you > believe all the prophets are one, and God's religion is one, then the > Bahai faith is redundant and Islam (in the sense of following the > Quran and the sunnah of Muhammad, saaws) is sufficient. Are you > willing to go along with that conclusion?
No Gilberto, I for one am not willing to go along with that conclusion. As several people have already pointed out, we believe that the "Last Hour" and "Judgment Day" prophesied in the Qur'an have occurred, and that the "Signs" of the last day have been fulfilled. To me, denying these signs would make me a denier of the Day of Judgment. Incidentally, you went on and on about the 1000 years interpretation by Baha'is leading to the lunar year 1260, but you never responded to my point about the specific sign referred to by Christ that led to the same year, 1844. Did you miss that message? I would just re-post the link, but it appears that escribe is down this weekend, so I am pasting it below. Patti > > "And there shall be a blast on the Trumpet, and all who are in the Heaven > > and all who are on the earth shall expire, save those whom God shall > > vouchsafe to live. Then shall there be another blast on it, and lo! arising > > they shall gaze around them: and the earth shall shine with the light of her > > Lord." (Qur'an 39:68-69) > > And what does it mean that "every soul shall be paid back fully what > it has done"? > > It seems weird. If judgment day is an event in ordinary human history > such that it was possible for most of the world to live through with > most people not even having an inkling that it was happening, is that > kind of odd? Are people "paid back" for their sins now, then at any > other time in history? > Gilberto, Hello again, I haven't written in a while because of a busy schedule and the fact that there are not enough hours in the day to just read all of the correspondence on this list recently (including links which I generally skip due to lack of time). First, my understanding is that every individual soul is judged at the time of death, while physically living individuals and societies are also judged at the appearance of a Manifestation. Also, as has already been stated, the appearance of Baha'u'llah accompanied major turning point in human history, inaugurating a new period in human history and ending the old 'age', which I understand as a special "Day of Judgment". "Resurrection" involves bringing the spiritually dead to spiritual life: "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." (King James Bible, Matthew 27:52-53 ) Another sign used to indicate "Judgment Day" is the blast of a trumpet. Note that the trumpet blast also accompanied Moses: "And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice." Exodus 19:18-19 One specific instance where Christ speaks specifically of the sign of the end of the age (many interpret these signs as end of the world, but the Hebrew word used--"Aion"--can also mean the end of an age or period of time) is found in Matthew 24:3: "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be ? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" He goes on to mention specifically: "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)" (King James Bible, Matthew 24:15 ) The prophecy of the abomination of desolation leads specifically to 1844 (the year 1260 AH, 1000 years after the occultation of the 12th Imam). This time is recorded as the first major time in history that many Christian millenialists arose, based on this prophecy. The time calculations used here are specific, and also predicted the coming of Christ (details are found in "Some Answered Questions" and "Thief in the Night") using the same formula. Saint Augustine even cites this prophecy in "City of God" to justify the veracity of Christ. Also, Christ says the following, speaking of what I would understand as "Judgment Days"--the second & third watches which could signify multiple Manifestations: "And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not." Luke 12:38-40 Generally, the metaphor of the thief in the night means to me that the "Hour" will come, but most people won't know it until it's passed and then people realize they're missing something. Also, note that just as the center of the Jewish Faith, the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed shortly after the advent of Christ, the caliphate & sultanate, the key centers of Islam, ended shortly after the advent of the Bab and Baha'u'llah (and after rejecting specifically addressed letters from Baha'u'llah). Finally, I know you and I can look at what is written in scriptures and see different things. For example, you probably would look at the following very differently than I do: "Woe, that Day, to those that deny-Those that deny the Day of Judgment. And none can deny it but the Transgressor beyond bounds, the Sinner! When Our Signs are rehearsed to him, he says, "Tales of the Ancients!" Yusef Ali, Sura 83: 10-13 To me, denying the Signs of God, as listed above, is denying the Day of Judgment. I understand that it can be interpreted differently, but I believe in my understanding of the events. Patti __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
