Gilberto writes:
MAybe I'm not being clear enough. It just seems that religions create
groups and institutions which promote certain values in society. And
there are at least two important tasks which religions carry out in
society.
One, when the society drifts away from its core values, the religion
should remind people of certain principles. And secondly, at the same
time, religious leaders need to apply these principles to new
situations and correctly understand what is going on in society and be
sensitive and flexible to current situations in order to remain
relevant.
ESpecially when popular opinion drifts too far from the basic values,
then popular notions of what is good become much less reliable in
terms of determining right and wrong.
Janine:
MAybe I'm not being clear enough. It just seems that religions create
groups and institutions which promote certain values in society. And
there are at least two important tasks which religions carry out in
society.
One, when the society drifts away from its core values, the religion
should remind people of certain principles. And secondly, at the same
time, religious leaders need to apply these principles to new
situations and correctly understand what is going on in society and be
sensitive and flexible to current situations in order to remain
relevant.
ESpecially when popular opinion drifts too far from the basic values,
then popular notions of what is good become much less reliable in
terms of determining right and wrong.
Janine:
The problem I see is that various religions have different views on how things should be handled. all religions except the Bahai faith have priests and different schools of thought. Authority, ultimate authority, is given to one person (like the Pope, the Dalai Lama, Khomeini). Only the Bahai faith is steeped in the practice of consultation. Only the Bahai faith presents the idea that society changes and the capacity of understanding Reality changes in human beings from era to era so that there is need for a renewing of the one religion of God, of which all the religions we know now are but chapters, or ports a river flows by.
the world is becoming more and more one entity. More and more we see that what happens in one country affects other countries. For example, political refugees have been flooding western countries the last 20 years to the point that western countries feel they cannot take on more immigrants and something should be done in the countries of origin so that people do not feel endangered. Political refugees are usually people who have no chance of making a normal living in their own countries, whose livelihood is threatened or whose life is at stake.
This relates directly to how a country views what is humane and what not, what should be punished and what not, what is eligible for open speech and what not. If a country sees a particular action, like voicing one's opinion about a government, as punishable with death, then it will most likely produce political refugees. If other countries do not consider voicing one's opinion about the government a deed punishable by death, people will flee to those countries.
If the country that produces political refugees has its basis in a certain religion, and the other countries in another religion, with different social laws and different ideas of what is punishable and in what way, how then can they agree? And who is the main authority on behalf of the religion in say a religion as Islam? Which is divided in at least two main streams, Sunni and Shiah and both can decide differently on what is appropriate according to the Qur'an and the times they live in?
For example, in many Islamic countries we see that women are extremely restricted in what they can do and what role in public they can play. And that women who point out that this is not in accordance with the Quran are punished and intimidated to be silent. So how can in this scenario religion remind people of certain principles, when people simply do not want to listen to the principles? Who can enforce these principles, when all the religious leaders, who are appointed for life, and not elected by the people themselves, are against them? Where will illumination start in this case?
And the same applies in Christianity, of which I know catholicism best, since I grew up a Catholic. Although in Islam it seems to be worse, because in Catholicism you have the Pope, whereas in Islam there is no central point where people can refer to, as far as I know (maybe I am totally wrong here, I do not know that much about Islam, except a bit of the Qur'an). No legislative authority, that is.
But the Pope's authority is not accepted by Protestants, and the head of the Anglican church is not an authority Methodists recognise. So who are going to be spokespeople for Christianity?
The principles on certain things differ also from religion to religion. There is a consensus in religions, like the golden rule. But in other things one can extract a different idea from religion to religion.
For example, a state inspired by Hindu teachings can put up punishments for those who kill cows, regardless of whether these are Hindus, and a Muslim state can put up punishments for those who eat pork, regardless of whether these are Muslim. Are these core principles of the religion or not? I would not say they are, I would say they apply to social laws, but a Hindu or Muslim might disagree with me. They might feel that part of salvation is for all people, whether Hindu or Muslim or not, to follow to the letter the decrees of that particular religion.
It seems to me that only consultation with all of the different religions can lead to an agreement for countries on a code of what is punishable and what is not and in what way, especially when it comes to punishments which can maim a person for life or take away her life.
much love,
janine van rooij
dublin, ireland
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