On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:52:59 -0500 (EST), Iskandar Hai, M.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I can't see your answer to Susan's question. You basically made a speech > against exploitation, etc.
I DID answer her question in the most reasonable way I know how. If you don't like that answer I'm not sure how to help you. Already from the beginning of this whole discussion I had said I'd prefer to talk about these issues with a different kind of example because the topic tends to make people emotional and sensitive. I guess I should have known better. The way I see it there is a basic problem which Jews, Christians, Muslims and Bahais living in modern times have. How do we come to terms with the fact that individuals who are prophets and messengers or otherwise examplary, may have made comments or commited actions which might have the appearance or suggestion of immorality when viewed from modern secular lenses. In my experience, the "answer" I've gotten most often from Bahais seems to suggest that basic ethical principles and values change over time like hemlines. Personally I find that answer REALLY unsatisfactory beceause it doesn't seem to take morality seriously. I would prefer to think that basic moral principles should have more staying power. If that means arguing that certain actions done in the past make sense in terms of more fundamental moral principles, so be it. > Basically, dear Gilberto, you can't call a 9-year old female (who has had > her menses) a "woman" or "young woman" in front of a judge or a court of > law in most any place nowadays (well, maybe with the exception of Saudi > Arabia, etc.) Nevertheless, in many human cultures that is when "adulthood" begins. And then I asked you a question which you didn't answer. When do YOU think a girl becomes a woman? and I doubt if the judge would buy your argument that you > have her consent, that she is an "adult" or "mature" by reason of her > puberty, that you have the consent of her parents, that she is happy with > the matrimonial relationship, that there is no exploitation, etc. > involved, etc., etc. It just won't work I don't think you should talk to me like that. This is part of why I would rather use a more neutral example. I have absolutely no interest in marrying a nine-year old girl and as I said in my answer, I have no objections to the statutory rape laws and I'm not interested in repealing them. Peace Gilberto > Regards, > Iskandar > > > On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote: > > > On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:03:37 -0600, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > In Islam, that's when a person becomes an adult. What other definition > > > of "woman" are you using? > > > > > Dear Gilberto, > > > > > So do you think it would be okay today if a mature man married and had > > > intercourse with a ten year old girl so long as she had had her menses? > > > > I don't think that's the only consideration in a relationship. People > > aren't just biological organs with stopwatches attached to them. I > > think a deeper criteria is that there be a loving non-exploitative > > commited relationship between the people who are married. There are > > some young people are precocious and can handle alot of things. There > > are some older people who are immature and can't. Ultimately age is > > just a number. > > > > But at the same time I certainly am in favor of efforts to protect > > children from exploitation. And I think a totally reasonable way to > > protect children in 2005 is to pass statutory rape laws, with certain > > age cut-offs even though the exact numbers might be somewhat > > arbitrary. > > > > Peace > > > > Gilberto > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:[email protected] > Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st > News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > -- "My people are hydroponic" __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
