Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 8/28/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Hasan wrote on 8/23:
>Does the suffering of Manifestations caused by a particular group of people
> (religion, sect, etc.) is a real reason which causes suffering to the entire world
> (including innocent people)?
> This quote of the Guardian is related to this issue:
> Islam, at once the progenitor and persecutor of the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh, is, if
> we read aright the signs of the times, only beginning to sustain the impact of
> this invincible and triumphant Faith. We need only recall the nineteen hundred
> years of abject misery and dispersion which they, who only for the short space
> of three years persecuted the Son of God, have had to endure, and are still
> enduring. We may well ask ourselves, with mingled feelings of dread and awe,
> how severe must be the tribulations of those who, during no less than fifty
> years, have, "at every moment tormented with a fresh torment" Him Who is
> the Father, and who have, in addition, made His Herald--Himself a
> Manifestation of God--to quaff, in such tragic circumstances, the cup of
> martyrdom.
Hasan,
Shoghi Effendi didn't make up this warning. The Guardian only echos the warning made by God Himself in the Qur'an. God says that He is the one who punishes the people after He sends His Messenger. "...nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an apostle." Qur'an 17:15
"Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss: No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an apostle. " Qur'an 17:15 (Yusuf Ali)
Neither verse says that God punishes in retaliation for not believing the prophet. Both those verses are saying that the presence of the prophet is a source of mercy.
Please read the stories of the Prophets in the Old Testament and the Qur'an. A punishment always accompanies their coming. And isn't this one of the definitions of a Messenger, to warn people of an impending disaster?
I don't know of a place in the Quran where people are punished for things they haven't done. I think that an essential part of the problem is the generational aspect. It was one thing to say that Caiphas and the specific Jewish people 2000 years ago tried to plot his death. It's another thing to say that Jews today are still deserving of punishment for the same effect. By the same token, why should Muslims today be punished for persecution of the Bab and Bahaullah?
It seems that this is just the system God uses, and will continue to use, since He says that His method will never change. "...no change wilt thou find in God's way (of dealing): No turning off wilt thou find in God's way (of dealing)." Qur'an 35:43 (Yusuf Ali)
I think it is too easy to whip out the verse, but you ultimately apply it selectively. The Bahai faith teaches that in certain fundamental respects, "God's way" actually does change.
PeaceGilbertoHere's the verses from Rodman:17:10 Who do the things that are right, that for them is a great reward;And that for those who believe not in the life to come, we have got
ready a painful punishment.May prayeth for evil as he prayeth for good; for man is hasty.We have made the night and the day for two signs: the sign of the night
do we obscure, but the sign of the day cause we to shine forth, that ye may
seek plenty from your Lord, and that ye may know the number of the years and
the reckoning of time; and we have made everything distinct by distinctiveness.And every man's fate have we fastened about his neck: and on the day of
resurrection will we bring forth to him a book which shall be proffered to him
wide open:- "Read thy Book: there needeth none by thyself to make out an account
against thee this day."For his own good only shall the guided yield to guidance, and to his own
loss only shall the erring err; and the heavy laden shall not be laden with
another's load. We never punished until we had first sent an apostle:And when we willed to destroy a city, to its affluent ones did we
address our bidding; but when they acted criminally therein, just was its doom,
and we destroyed it with an utter destruction.And since Noah, how many nations have we exterminated! And of the sins
of his servants thy Lord is sufficiently informed, observant.Whoso chooseth this quickly passing life, quickly will we bestow therein
that which we please - even on him we chose; afterward we will appoint hell for
him, in which he shall burn - disgraced, outcast:17:20 But whoso chooseth the next life, and striveth after it as it should be
striven for, being also a believer, - these! their striving shall be grateful
to God:To all - both to these and those - will we prolong the gifts of thy
Lord; for not to any shall the gifts of thy Lord be denied.See how we have caused some of them to excel others! but the next life
shall be greater in its grades,, and greater in excellence.Set not up another god with God, lest thou sit thee down disgraced,
helpless.Thy Lord hath ordained that ye worship none but him; and, kindness to
your parents, whether one or both of them attain to old age with thee: and say
not to them, "Fie!" neither reproach them; but speak to them both with
respectful speech;And defer humbly to them out of tenderness; and say, "Lord, have
compassion on them both, even as they reared me when I was little."Your Lord well knoweth what is in your souls; he knoweth whether ye be
righteous:And gracious is He to those who return to Him.And to him who is of kin render his due, and also to the poor and to the
wayfarer; yet waste not wastefully.For the wasteful are brethren of the Satans, and Satan was ungrateful to
his Lord:Regards,Scott
Arnold J. Toynbee
