Tim,

At 07:21 AM 9/17/2005, you wrote:
>>A person can identify himself as anything. That provides insight into how the 
>>person sees himself.<< 

In the sociology of religion, such identifications are generally regarded as 
important for simple categorization, such as in survey research. Whether they 
provide insight into self-identity, in some broader sense, is probably a matter 
for cognitive and social psychologists.

>>Sociologists excepted of course :^)<<

I would accept that person's self-definition even if I were not a sociologist. 
There is a difference between self-definition and whether a person satisfies 
the criteria for membership in a religious organization.

>>If a person describes himself as an expert in the Chinese language, people 
>>will expect him to be able to read and translate a Chinese newspaper. If a 
>>person describes himself as a Baha'i, other Baha'is will have certain 
>>expectations, based on the statements of Shoghi Effendi and the House of 
>>Justice.<<

Claiming to be able to translate a Chinese newspaper is an easily verifiable 
empirical statement. You place a newspaper before the person and request the 
translation. 

Similarly, identifying with the Baha'i Faith is also empirical. You ask a 
person if she or he has that identity. Short of mind-reading, that is the best 
one can do.

>>I do understand the point that membership in an organization, is not the same 
>>as simple self-identification.  But in this contingent world, being a Baha'i 
>>entails being part of an organization.<<

Being a *member* of the Baha'i Faith entails being part of an organization. I, 
for one, would never judge that someone was not a Baha'i because she or he did 
not belong to the Baha'i International Community. `Abdu'l-Baha's definition of 
a Baha'i, which I accept, was very broad. On the other hand, Shoghi Effendi 
dealt primarily with the criteria for membership in a religious community.

>>But, in regular, everyday life, it isn't necessary to know another person's 
>>inward reality.  However, in this world, it sometimes is necessary to know 
>>whether a person's self-identification corresponds with outward reality.  For 
>>example, does the self-described carpenter actually know how to build a 
>>house?<<

No "outward reality" is required for self-identification except an assertion.

Via moderna, Mark A. Foster . http://markfoster.net
... [a] word is ... a universal. - William of Ockham
Structurization Tech: http://tech.structurization.com 



 
 
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