The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Tim,
I think you are confusing two different issues: (a) the existence of logical proofs for God and (b) people's willingness to accept these proofs. (a) is a matter of intellect whereas (b) is a matter of will. People can will to deny anything regardless of evidence or logic if, for whatever reasons, they have made up their minds to minds not to believe. However, their refusal to believe/accept logic and/or evidence has nothing to do with the validity of the logic and evidence. This validity is not impugned by their refusal. I tend to agree with Susan that the first function of these proofs (e.g. Kurt Goedel's resuscitation of the ontological argument) is to show that faith is not irrational as maintained by the new atheists, i.e. that reason and faith are not necessarily in a state of conflict. Best wishes, Ian Kluge _____ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Betts Sent: November 18, 2008 7:02 PM To: Baha'i Studies Subject: Re: Baha'i proofs of the existence of God The Baha'i Studies Listserv Please study William Hatcher's proof. The Baha'i Studies Listserv >The members of a set (Creation) can not prove the existence of >something (God) outside the set. An excellent point. I think there will never be a convincing, logical proof of God's existence, because humans have been attempting this for centuries, and still not everyone believes. If God's existence could be proven like a mathematical theorem, it would have been done by now, and everyone would believe. I don't think God wants people to be compelled to believe, to be unable to deny God's existence. Therefore there will never be a proof that is overwhelmingly convincing. Tim But remember this, no one can remove the footprints you made, or the echo of your voice, or the smiles you gave and those you got in return, and as you go around in your travels, you will see beauty spots, all belonging to God. -- Charles Dunning The so-called proofs are actually rationalizations for believing. Don C ------------- Understood properly, all man's problems are essentially spiritual in nature. __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.7/1798 - Release Date: 11/18/2008 8:59 PM __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
