The Baha'i Studies Listserv Hi Stephen, What I meant by "good" is that the World Order of Bahá'u'lláh will be successful in a broken world. So the leaders of religions/denominations will attack the Bahá'í Faith, this will lead to investigation of the truth and then mass conversion.
Shoghi Effendi wrote: To the general character, the implications and features of this world commonwealth, destined to emerge, sooner or later, out of the carnage, agony, and havoc of this great world convulsion, I have already referred in my previous communications. Suffice it to say that this consummation will, by its very nature, be a gradual process, and must, as Bahá’u’lláh has Himself anticipated, lead at first to the establishment of that Lesser Peace which the nations of the earth, as yet unconscious of His Revelation and yet unwittingly enforcing the general principles which He has enunciated, will themselves establish. This momentous and historic step, involving the reconstruction of mankind, as the result of the universal recognition of its oneness and wholeness, will bring in its wake the spiritualization of the masses, consequent to the recognition of the character, and the acknowledgment of the claims, of the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh—the essential condition to that ultimate fusion of all races, creeds, classes, and nations which must signalize the emergence of His New World Order. Then will the coming of age of the entire human race be proclaimed and celebrated by all the peoples and nations of the earth. Then will the banner of the Most Great Peace be hoisted. Then will the worldwide sovereignty of Bahá’u’lláh—the Establisher of the Kingdom of the Father foretold by the Son, and anticipated by the Prophets of God before Him and after Him—be recognized, acclaimed, and firmly established. Then will a world civilization be born, flourish, and perpetuate itself, a civilization with a fullness of life such as the world has never seen nor can as yet conceive. Then will the Everlasting Covenant be fulfilled in its completeness. Then will the promise enshrined in all the Books of God be redeemed, and all the prophecies uttered by the Prophets of old come to pass, and the vision of seers and poets be realized. Then will the planet, galvanized through the universal belief of its dwellers in one God, and their allegiance to one common Revelation, mirror, within the limitations imposed upon it, the effulgent glories of the sovereignty of Bahá’u’lláh, shining in the plenitude of its splendor in the Abhá Paradise, and be made the footstool of His Throne on high, and acclaimed as the earthly heaven, capable of fulfilling that ineffable destiny fixed for it, from time immemorial, by the love and wisdom of its Creator. Not ours, puny mortals that we are, to attempt, at so critical a stage in the long and checkered history of mankind, to arrive at a precise and satisfactory understanding of the steps which must successively lead a bleeding humanity, wretchedly oblivious of its God, and careless of Bahá’u’lláh, from its calvary to its ultimate resurrection. Not ours, the living witnesses of the all-subduing potency of His Faith, to question, for a moment, and however dark the misery that enshrouds the world, the ability of Bahá’u’lláh to forge, with the hammer of His Will, and through the fire of tribulation, upon the anvil of this travailing age, and in the particular shape His mind has envisioned, these scattered and mutually destructive fragments into which a perverse world has fallen, into one single unit, solid and indivisible, able to execute His design for the children of men. Ours rather the duty, however confused the scene, however dismal the present outlook, however circumscribed the resources we dispose of, to labor serenely, confidently, and unremittingly to lend our share of assistance, in whichever way circumstances may enable us, to the operation of the forces which, as marshaled and directed by Bahá’u’lláh, are leading humanity out of the valley of misery and shame to the loftiest summits of power and glory. Bahá'u'lláh don't say that every person "MUST" be bahá'í, He says that all should seek/investigate the truth, the Universal house of Justice wrote: However central the ideal of the oneness of religion unquestionably is, therefore, the task of sharing Bahá'u'lláh's message is obviously not an interfaith project. While the mind seeks intellectual certainty, what the soul longs for is the attainment of certitude. Such inner conviction is the ultimate goal of all spiritual seeking, regardless of how rapid or gradual the process may be. For the soul, the experience of conversion is not an extraneous or incidental feature of the exploration of religious truth, but the pivotal issue that must eventually be addressed. There is no ambiguity about Bahá'u'lláh's words on the subject and there can be none in the minds of those who seek to serve Him: "Verily I say, this is the Day in which mankind can behold the Face, and hear the Voice, of the Promised One. The Call of God hath been raised, and the light of His countenance hath been lifted up upon men. It behoveth every man to blot out the trace of every idle word from the tablet of his heart, and to gaze, with an open and unbiased mind, on the signs of His Revelation, the proofs of His Mission, and the tokens of His glory." ________________________________ De: Stephen Kent Gray <skg_z...@yahoo.com> Para: Baha'i Studies <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu> Enviado: Domingo, 10 de febrero, 2013 6:00 P.M. Asunto: Re: First Person Grammar The Baha'i Studies Listserv There's no precedent in the history of religious demographics for one religion to dominate the whole world. People don't just convert to a religion because it's good. When people decide on what religion they want to be, they just do go and say "Do I want to be a Bahai or not?" There are dozens of major religious groups that any given person has to choose between. The only way to ensure a conversion is to have a person view the religion as exclusively good. You are forgetting the implicit opportunity cost in being any given religion. By choosing to be any of the 21 largest or 6 medium sized major religious groups, you are deciding not to be all the others, with the rare exceptions of triple religion in some areas of Asia and the like. Why would the world be 90's% any religion at all no matter how far in the future? That's even if you assume there's no new major religious groups appearing on the scene and projecting from that. Is there any evidence that at any point that the Baha'i Faith will be the fastest growing religion or even the only growing religion? Why would the world be 95%+ Bahai in the far future more than being 95%+ any other religion in the future? Why not 95%+ Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Secular, Wiccan, Tenrikyo, Cheodogyo, Seicho no Ie, Sekai Kyuseikyo, Rastafari, Cao Dai, Jain, Sikh, Jewish, Taoist, Confucian, Shinto, Unitarian Universalist, etc.? Wether 1,000 years into the future oven 1,000,00 years or more into the future, why would such a thing happen? Let's say an abstract person started to study other religions, including but not limited to the Baha'i Faith, why would said individual convert to the Baha'i Faith and never convert from it until their death? Said person may view their current religion as good, a religion they're studying as good, several of the religions they're studying as good, or even both their current religion and several of the ones being studied as good. Also, please define what you mean when a person find a religion to be good. Links to Wikipedia below. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_conversion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest-growing_religion Sent from my iPad On Feb 10, 2013, at 15:53, Hasan Elías <hasanel...@yahoo.com> wrote: >The Baha'i Studies Listserv >Hi Stephen, > > >I never read a bahá'í writing that suggests that everybody "must" became >bahá'í. > > >As a bahá'í I believe that in the distant future the majority of the world >(perhaps near 95%) will be bahá'í. The writings suggest that people will >embrace the Faith by choice because it is good, not because it is obligatory. > > >I heard the mass conversion will be held after the institutional attacks of >other big religions/denominations such as the Catholic Church, Islam, >Buddhism, etc. The cause of these attacks will be the fear of the success of >the Bahá'í World Order. > > >Hasan > > > >________________________________ > De: Stephen Kent Gray <skg_z...@yahoo.com> >Para: Baha'i Studies <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu> >Enviado: Domingo, 10 de febrero, 2013 4:36 P.M. >Asunto: Re: First Person Grammar > > > >The Baha'i Studies Listserv >Technically, it depends on the use of pronoun tense (1, 2, or 3). > > >He makes lots of use of vague pronouns which leaves a window of >interpretation. Baha'i bloggers use sense 3 a lot like I've noted earlier. > > >In reference to Baha'u'llah, a blogger (I forget which one cause there are >just so many), says that humanity should and must accept His laws, His faith, >and His institutions. The blogger imposes divine duty on people, but never >suggest it's the duty of Baha'is to force people to comply with this duty. >Just that God may deal with non-Bahai's in the afterlife in a not so good way. > > >It depends on what His means. Does His means God's, Manifestation's (Moses's, >Jesus's, Muhammad's, Bab's, Baha'u'llah's, Zoroaster's, Krishna's, Buddha's), >or just Baha'u'llah's? > > >A pronoun is a word used instead of a noun as a time saving device. But, >sometimes this can lead to ambiguity to what the pronouns is referring to. > > >1.God >2.Manifestation >3.Baha'ullah > > >These above are the three sense I referred to earlier. 1 and 2 are splitting >hairs basically. 3 is a subset of 2, but excludes the rest of 2 that is not 3. >The topic is first person grammar, but can include third person grammar for >indirect quotes rather than direct quotes. > >Sent from my iPad > >On Feb 10, 2013, at 15:04, Hasan Elías <hasanel...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >>The Baha'i Studies Listserv >>Hi, >> >> >>It is better to recognize God (through Bahá'u'lláh), but we should not force >>anybody. Where Bahá'u'lláh says that everybody "must" become bahá'í? >> >> >> >>Hasan >> >> >> >> >>>I have seen Baha'i blogs where a sense 3 usage of Baha'ullah's writings >>>combined with promoting >independent investigation of truth leads to imply >>>that every man, woman, and child in the world should and must >become Baha'i >>>because Baha'ullah says so. The status of Jews, Christians, Muslims, >>>Bayanis, Zoroastrians, Hindus, and >Buddhists depends on the sense you use >>>as well. This is despite Baha'is criticizing Christians doing the same thing >>>with >the Bible and converting the world to Christianity because Jesus/Bible >>>says so. >> >> >> >>http://www.wilmetteinstitute.org/projects/affirmations.html >> >> >> >> > > __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-687723-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
