Hi, Here is the log of the chatroom at http://farsides.com/chat/ (or irc://irc.freenode.net/#farsides) for the 2011-05-19.
2011-05-19 00:42:32+0000 rogerio (rogerio) is now online 2011-05-19 01:33:59+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2011-05-19 05:19:28+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-05-19 05:19:30+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-05-19 06:07:38+0000 <dachary> FYI 2011-05-19 06:07:40+0000 <dachary> https://github.com/danielweinmann/catarse#readme 2011-05-19 06:08:37+0000 <dachary> http://catarse.me/en 2011-05-19 07:43:50+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-05-19 07:50:20+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2011-05-19 08:06:52+0000 da (da) is now online 2011-05-19 08:35:30+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2011-05-19 08:53:38+0000 tempuramerino (tempuramerino) is now online 2011-05-19 08:53:55+0000 <antoviaque> hi all : ) 2011-05-19 09:08:21+0000 <da> hi there 2011-05-19 09:20:47+0000 <rogerio> Bonjour 2011-05-19 09:21:17+0000 <rogerio> antoviaque: Hi Xavier 2011-05-19 09:21:23+0000 <rogerio> da: Hi da 2011-05-19 09:21:36+0000 <da> hi rogerio 2011-05-19 09:21:38+0000 <rogerio> dachary: Hi dachary 2011-05-19 09:21:44+0000 <da> how are you ? 2011-05-19 09:21:53+0000 <antoviaque> hi rogerio : ) 2011-05-19 09:21:58+0000 <rogerio> I'm fine, and you how are you? 2011-05-19 09:22:03+0000 <rogerio> :) 2011-05-19 09:22:09+0000 <antoviaque> Very good! 2011-05-19 09:22:19+0000 <da> all good :) 2011-05-19 09:22:20+0000 * antoviaque is updating tickets in the tracker 2011-05-19 09:23:19+0000 <rogerio> I worked yesterday on the tickets #15 and #71, because they are related each other 2011-05-19 09:23:33+0000 <antoviaque> yup 2011-05-19 09:23:36+0000 <antoviaque> how did it went? 2011-05-19 09:23:52+0000 <rogerio> but I did not make the test for it yet 2011-05-19 09:24:56+0000 <rogerio> sorry Xavier, what did you ask me? I didn't understand 2011-05-19 09:26:08+0000 <antoviaque> I was asking if if everything was ok when you worked on it : ) 2011-05-19 09:27:09+0000 <rogerio> antoviaque: ahhh, heheheh, sorry 2011-05-19 09:27:09+0000 <antoviaque> ok for the test - probably worth writing it before the review, otherwise dachary is going to complain about it ;p 2011-05-19 09:27:28+0000 <rogerio> yes, I know 2011-05-19 09:27:36+0000 <antoviaque> did you had troubles writting the tests? 2011-05-19 09:27:55+0000 <rogerio> I was thinking that I need to discuss something with him before made the test 2011-05-19 09:28:12+0000 <rogerio> no, I didn't 2011-05-19 09:28:32+0000 <antoviaque> ok : ) 2011-05-19 09:28:35+0000 <rogerio> it was the first time I used that framework for test for javascript 2011-05-19 09:28:54+0000 <antoviaque> btw da is there, so if you want to discuss the full time prices we can 2011-05-19 09:28:59+0000 <rogerio> about the ticket #15 2011-05-19 09:29:02+0000 <antoviaque> ah, yes, the first contact can be painful ;p 2011-05-19 09:29:29+0000 <rogerio> sorry, we can discuss the full time now 2011-05-19 09:29:45+0000 <antoviaque> no problem - it's for you : ) 2011-05-19 09:29:50+0000 <rogerio> after I tell you about the ticket 2011-05-19 09:29:56+0000 <antoviaque> ok 2011-05-19 09:29:58+0000 <rogerio> ehhehe, :) 2011-05-19 09:30:29+0000 <da> rogerio: yes let's tackle this :) 2011-05-19 09:30:31+0000 <rogerio> so, what did you conclude about the price? 2011-05-19 09:30:42+0000 <rogerio> great 2011-05-19 09:31:12+0000 <da> first what is your favourite option currently, full time (5 days per week) or less ? 2011-05-19 09:31:57+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio: no conclusions yet - it's a discussion, so the goal is to have everyone happy at the end : ) 2011-05-19 09:32:09+0000 <da> antoviaque: yes indeed :) 2011-05-19 09:32:46+0000 <da> after the conversation you can perfectly take some time to think about it rather, no need to rush decisions 2011-05-19 09:32:58+0000 <rogerio> da: currently I have a job here, as I said to Xavier I want to quit my job, I'm don't linking to work there, so I thought farsides could 2011-05-19 09:33:04+0000 <rogerio> be a great opportunite 2011-05-19 09:33:10+0000 <da> perfect 2011-05-19 09:33:25+0000 <rogerio> so I prefer fulltime if I have some kind of security 2011-05-19 09:33:44+0000 <da> so limited time while you have your job, and we now discuss on what could be a full time after that correct ? 2011-05-19 09:34:23+0000 <rogerio> if I have no security, for example, knowing that the project will be finished in october for example, I prefer not, prefer work less and keep my current job here for a while 2011-05-19 09:35:06+0000 <antoviaque> yep we discussed that : ) 2011-05-19 09:35:13+0000 <rogerio> yes 2011-05-19 09:35:46+0000 <antoviaque> We're here to stay - there is always a part of risk, but having this kind of regular deadlines for founding is normal for a company at our stage 2011-05-19 09:35:56+0000 <da> i understand. What do you think we could do for the security part ? 2011-05-19 09:36:36+0000 <rogerio> I need to understand more about the company, project etc 2011-05-19 09:37:00+0000 <rogerio> so, how many project do you have? etc 2011-05-19 09:37:03+0000 tempuramerino (tempuramerino) is now online 2011-05-19 09:37:13+0000 <da> on thing i can think of is to be very transparent with you on what's going on (that's the way we do it here) about money available, fund raising, etc 2011-05-19 09:37:40+0000 <da> so that you can assess where we stand and act accordingly 2011-05-19 09:37:57+0000 <rogerio> Xavier, was talking to me about the investiment, that you have funds for pay at least september/october 2011-05-19 09:38:05+0000 <antoviaque> One of the things we discussed with rogerio was to have something similar to the unemployment insurance - the possibility of warning 2-3 months in advance and giving time to look for a new job if there was a problem 2011-05-19 09:38:24+0000 <antoviaque> for example 2011-05-19 09:38:31+0000 <rogerio> yes 2011-05-19 09:39:16+0000 <rogerio> this warning will be good 2011-05-19 09:39:28+0000 <rogerio> if possible 2011-05-19 09:39:31+0000 <da> absolutely rogerio : we currently have done a first round of 50kâ¬. Which is enough to pay the dev until september (if we keep the same burnrate), which is the time where we plan to raise some new funds 2011-05-19 09:39:40+0000 <da> the warning is perfectly possible, yep 2011-05-19 09:39:57+0000 <rogerio> 2 months? 2011-05-19 09:40:16+0000 <da> it's possible to make it 3 if you feel more comfortable 2011-05-19 09:40:23+0000 <rogerio> great 2011-05-19 09:40:42+0000 <da> and also possible giving you some additional free time to look for a job at that time 2011-05-19 09:40:50+0000 <rogerio> so, we are almost on June 2011-05-19 09:41:30+0000 <rogerio> June, July August, Septmeber: almost 3 months, hehheheheh :) 2011-05-19 09:41:45+0000 <da> what will happen is that i will start looking for funds at the end of june. I will let you (and everyone) know how things are going. 2011-05-19 09:41:58+0000 <da> If it looks good, no warning :) 2011-05-19 09:42:02+0000 <rogerio> ahh, great 2011-05-19 09:42:13+0000 <da> if I feel that it's going to be difficult, then warning 2011-05-19 09:42:33+0000 <rogerio> I understand 2011-05-19 09:42:41+0000 <antoviaque> And in any case there is contractual agreement, to give a 2 months notice before ending the contract 2011-05-19 09:42:42+0000 <da> this won't mean that we won't succeed, it will just mean that you should think of a plan B 2011-05-19 09:42:50+0000 <da> what do you think ? 2011-05-19 09:43:58+0000 <rogerio> da: I was thing now, how about we try to make part time until june or july, until you get funds, so, after that, if everyting going ok, I make a full time job, will this work for you? 2011-05-19 09:44:46+0000 <rogerio> what do you prefer? 2011-05-19 09:46:15+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio: the thing is, it will be always a bit like that - a startup rarely gets more than a few months of visibility, from one round of founding to the next one 2011-05-19 09:46:26+0000 <da> well honestly, i would prefer to have you full time :), but i understand your concern. 2011-05-19 09:46:33+0000 <antoviaque> so you're likely to have the same issue when we get the next round 2011-05-19 09:46:48+0000 <antoviaque> we just got that one, so you're in the exact same position now that you'd be then 2011-05-19 09:47:03+0000 <rogerio> I understand 2011-05-19 09:47:24+0000 <antoviaque> so it's up to you to see if you want to take your chance with the project - I won't push you, this is really a personal decision : ) 2011-05-19 09:47:54+0000 <antoviaque> Also we have to complete the test phase, get a few of your tasks merged, etc. - so you don't have to answer now 2011-05-19 09:48:13+0000 <antoviaque> You can take the time to think about it, see how it goes, if you like the project, etc. 2011-05-19 09:48:26+0000 <rogerio> yes, I understand 2011-05-19 09:48:47+0000 <rogerio> I will think about it 2011-05-19 09:49:03+0000 <antoviaque> yup - no rush : ) 2011-05-19 09:49:16+0000 <rogerio> thanks Xavier 2011-05-19 09:49:26+0000 <rogerio> so, about the price, what do you have in made? 2011-05-19 09:49:34+0000 <rogerio> for full time? 2011-05-19 09:49:37+0000 <da> one question : in the current phase, how many days per week do you think you could spend with us ? 2011-05-19 09:50:22+0000 <rogerio> 5 days, assuming 4-5 hours per day 2011-05-19 09:50:28+0000 <da> yes the price :) Let me give you my position, it'll take a little time to type 2011-05-19 09:51:18+0000 <rogerio> sorry, I type it wrong: "have in mind" not "in made" 2011-05-19 09:54:08+0000 <da> if a punctual task in france is at 300â¬, then i base my estimate for a full time contract at 200â¬/day, because of the security it gives. This, with the adaptation to the cost of leaving, gives 230brl. But if i'm correct, you had a 325/day in your previous job at half time, so i feel that the gap would be too big, even taking into account the decrease from a half time to full time 2011-05-19 09:54:20+0000 <rogerio> when you mean current phase, I understand my current situation, woking here in my job and dedicating 4-5 hours per day on Farsides, am I right? 2011-05-19 09:54:51+0000 <da> Absolutely. Though now i'm talking about what would be a full time 2011-05-19 09:55:22+0000 <da> so i was thinking that something reasonable for the studio would be 280brl/day for a full time (and 300/day for a half time) 2011-05-19 09:55:43+0000 <da> how would that seem to you ? 2011-05-19 09:56:24+0000 <rogerio> 280/day full time 2011-05-19 09:56:29+0000 <rogerio> 300/day part time 2011-05-19 09:56:33+0000 <rogerio> strange 2011-05-19 09:56:40+0000 <rogerio> part time pay more? 2011-05-19 09:56:59+0000 <rogerio> sorry, eheheh, I did not understand 2011-05-19 09:57:05+0000 <antoviaque> part time => 10 days per month, full time => 20 days per month 2011-05-19 09:57:18+0000 <rogerio> hmm, sorry 2011-05-19 09:57:30+0000 <antoviaque> so part time you earn 10*300=3000, full time 280*20 2011-05-19 09:57:54+0000 <antoviaque> np : ) 2011-05-19 09:57:59+0000 <antoviaque> it's true it can be unsettling ;p 2011-05-19 09:58:07+0000 <rogerio> hehehe 2011-05-19 09:58:09+0000 <rogerio> I think it looks great 2011-05-19 09:58:19+0000 <da> no, not so strange :) yes it pays more because the studio commits to give more security. If the studio pays only one task, the freelance has no guarantee and no visibility on what will come next. So the price is more expensive. If the studio pays 22 tasks per month with 2 months notice, this is very different 2011-05-19 09:58:53+0000 <da> i know it can seem a bit strange at first, but do you see the logic ? 2011-05-19 09:58:54+0000 <rogerio> yes, I understand 2011-05-19 09:59:09+0000 <rogerio> yes, it make sense 2011-05-19 09:59:24+0000 <rogerio> da, one question 2011-05-19 09:59:33+0000 <rogerio> how do you pay that? 2011-05-19 09:59:39+0000 <rogerio> by exchange? 2011-05-19 10:00:16+0000 <da> i usually pay with paypal or wire transfer. I'm not sure to understand what you mean by exchange ? 2011-05-19 10:00:46+0000 <rogerio> pay order, somthing like this 2011-05-19 10:00:58+0000 <rogerio> maybe I used the wrong term 2011-05-19 10:01:01+0000 <rogerio> sorry 2011-05-19 10:01:10+0000 <da> hmm not familiar with that but i can look into that if you want 2011-05-19 10:01:30+0000 <da> one question on my side :) While you have your current job, do you know how you can make invoices for us on your side ? 2011-05-19 10:02:09+0000 <rogerio> If I receive by Pay Pal, do I have to pay income tax here? Sorry, I don't knwo if you can answer this question 2011-05-19 10:02:35+0000 <da> i would need to investigate, but i guess that if you make an invoice, there will be income tax 2011-05-19 10:03:17+0000 <da> i' don't know how this works in brazil, but it would be interesting to check the status on your side (free lance, etc), so that we can understand the tax and admin consequences for you and for the studio 2011-05-19 10:03:35+0000 <rogerio> do you mean, the invoice document? 2011-05-19 10:03:52+0000 <rogerio> I ujnderstand 2011-05-19 10:04:21+0000 <da> yes. For instance, in France, if i want to invoice something, i either need a company, or a free lance status, etc, a legal entity that has the right to invoice 2011-05-19 10:04:25+0000 <da> cool 2011-05-19 10:04:46+0000 <rogerio> because the income tax here in Brazil are very high, so, I think could be about 1000,00 to pay to the governmt 2011-05-19 10:05:15+0000 <rogerio> hmmm, I have no company, anything 2011-05-19 10:05:23+0000 <antoviaque> over 6000 reais ? 2011-05-19 10:05:46+0000 <antoviaque> I don't think you need a company, just the ability to make invoices or similar 2011-05-19 10:06:04+0000 <rogerio> when I worked for The Lab Compnay or CrossJibe both on California I just made simple documents 2011-05-19 10:06:06+0000 <antoviaque> this part is really french - here individuals can't make invoices ;p 2011-05-19 10:06:23+0000 <antoviaque> yep, it's probably good enough : ) 2011-05-19 10:06:33+0000 <rogerio> document saying how many hours I worked that month, something this 2011-05-19 10:06:37+0000 <antoviaque> da can check though 2011-05-19 10:07:19+0000 <da> i'll just need invoices from you like you did for the US :) For the rest I'll enquire on my side 2011-05-19 10:07:20+0000 <rogerio> something like this 2011-05-19 10:07:35+0000 <rogerio> good 2011-05-19 10:08:10+0000 <da> but there migh be little paperwork on your side, i can't promise that there won't ;) 2011-05-19 10:08:27+0000 <rogerio> ok 2011-05-19 10:08:35+0000 <rogerio> so, I'll think more about the full time thing 2011-05-19 10:08:49+0000 <rogerio> and I'll give you my position 2011-05-19 10:09:00+0000 <rogerio> I'm on phase test yet I think 2011-05-19 10:09:10+0000 <da> yes, please take your time. As Xav said, it's reaaly a personal choice 2011-05-19 10:10:13+0000 <rogerio> thank you very much da 2011-05-19 10:10:33+0000 <da> yes, let's take the time to finish the test phase. For the current work, are we ok with the 300/day ? (your first task was at 325 though, as agreed between you and Xav in a previous chat) 2011-05-19 10:10:38+0000 <antoviaque> and rogerio - if you have doubts or questions in the meantime don't hesitate 2011-05-19 10:11:19+0000 <antoviaque> one of the advantages is that we are still small, so we are adaptable 2011-05-19 10:11:32+0000 <antoviaque> if you think of things that could help, I'll be happy to discuss it 2011-05-19 10:11:34+0000 <rogerio> da: yes 2011-05-19 10:11:42+0000 <da> perfect 2011-05-19 10:11:51+0000 <rogerio> antoviaque: thank you Xavier 2011-05-19 10:11:59+0000 <antoviaque> :) 2011-05-19 10:12:28+0000 <da> rogerio: on a different topic :) Could you subscribe to the various groups on buddypress so that you receive notifications on the current discussions ? 2011-05-19 10:12:50+0000 <da> http://farsides.com/blog/groups/ 2011-05-19 10:13:37+0000 <rogerio> ahh yes 2011-05-19 10:13:47+0000 <da> there is one group, project management, where you can report what you worked on and the duration agreed with Xav on the tasks, this would help me a lot with the follow up :) 2011-05-19 10:13:58+0000 <da> you can see an example from romulo here : 2011-05-19 10:14:33+0000 <da> http://farsides.com/blog/members/razor85/activity/630/ 2011-05-19 10:19:34+0000 <rogerio> Ok, dachary, I've created an account now 2011-05-19 10:19:51+0000 <rogerio> I'll post there 2011-05-19 10:20:01+0000 <rogerio> da, sorry 2011-05-19 10:20:04+0000 <rogerio> hahahaahh 2011-05-19 10:20:09+0000 <da> :) 2011-05-19 10:22:02+0000 <rogerio> antoviaque: about the current tasks 2011-05-19 10:22:23+0000 <antoviaque> yup 2011-05-19 10:22:30+0000 <rogerio> I need to make the test for #15 and #71 2011-05-19 10:22:35+0000 <rogerio> they are related tasks 2011-05-19 10:22:54+0000 <antoviaque> yep 2011-05-19 10:23:01+0000 <rogerio> might I make 2 tests? 2011-05-19 10:23:09+0000 <rogerio> or just one? 2011-05-19 10:23:17+0000 <rogerio> because they are related 2011-05-19 10:24:14+0000 <antoviaque> I think, if you add a test that checks that {GAME_URL} is correctly replaced by the right url in the correct dom element, you'll be good 2011-05-19 10:24:26+0000 <antoviaque> dachary can confirm later on, but that's how I would approach it 2011-05-19 10:24:41+0000 <antoviaque> so, yep, they are realted and should be tested together imho 2011-05-19 10:24:44+0000 <antoviaque> related 2011-05-19 10:25:08+0000 <rogerio> hmm 2011-05-19 10:25:59+0000 <rogerio> another thing, what could be the GAME_URL? 2011-05-19 10:26:11+0000 <rogerio> we get this value from the server 2011-05-19 10:26:34+0000 <rogerio> I don't know if this will run on apache 2011-05-19 10:27:08+0000 <rogerio> I need to know better from where get this value, the GAME_URL 2011-05-19 10:31:42+0000 <rogerio> may I use from "etc/default/cardstories" CARDSTORIES_HOST? 2011-05-19 10:31:48+0000 <rogerio> i don't know 2011-05-19 10:32:45+0000 <rogerio> I'll try to connect this afternoon and discuss with dachary this issue 2011-05-19 10:32:54+0000 <antoviaque> Nope, you need to build it 2011-05-19 10:33:15+0000 <antoviaque> there is already a function that does this - permalink() if I remember correctly 2011-05-19 10:33:24+0000 <rogerio> hmmm, great 2011-05-19 10:33:36+0000 <antoviaque> it gives the permalink for the current game 2011-05-19 10:34:02+0000 <rogerio> sorry, I would search more, and find this :) 2011-05-19 10:34:14+0000 <antoviaque> Because if you take the current URL, sometimes there won't be the game id in it, other times you may have the player_id parameter that you don't want to include in publicly shared urls 2011-05-19 10:34:19+0000 <antoviaque> no problem : ) 2011-05-19 10:34:33+0000 <rogerio> thanks Xavier 2011-05-19 10:34:37+0000 <antoviaque> yw :) 2011-05-19 10:35:13+0000 <rogerio> I would like to understand something, may I have to do 1 task per day? 2011-05-19 10:36:04+0000 <rogerio> so, I need to make another one today, but I think I'm late with the old ticket #70 2011-05-19 10:36:38+0000 <rogerio> I have #70, the first, and #15-#71 yesterday 2011-05-19 10:36:56+0000 <antoviaque> ideally, yes, you would take on one (or several once you have passed the learning stage, which takes time) every day 2011-05-19 10:37:34+0000 <antoviaque> and each day is marked as completed when the corresponding task(s) are accepted and merged 2011-05-19 10:37:49+0000 <rogerio> I understand 2011-05-19 10:38:00+0000 <antoviaque> but of course some times you'll need to do some back and forth before it gets completed 2011-05-19 10:38:05+0000 <antoviaque> so two things: 2011-05-19 10:38:08+0000 <rogerio> sorry for the late, I'll try to finish today 2011-05-19 10:38:28+0000 <antoviaque> 1) you need to tak this into account when you estimate a task (to avoid overloading yourself) 2011-05-19 10:39:06+0000 <antoviaque> and if a task is nt finished, you can still take on another task the next day, and work on resolving both 2011-05-19 10:39:28+0000 <antoviaque> this way you don't always have to wait for a task to be accepted and merged to get new work, which would be impractical 2011-05-19 10:39:53+0000 <rogerio> yes, understood 2011-05-19 10:39:54+0000 <antoviaque> but it's limited in number of tasks you can take on this way, to avoid creating big backlogs 2011-05-19 10:39:59+0000 <antoviaque> ok : ) 2011-05-19 10:40:06+0000 <antoviaque> so it's up to you for today 2011-05-19 10:40:15+0000 tartarugafeliz (tartarugafeliz) is now online 2011-05-19 10:40:38+0000 <antoviaque> whether you want to take on another set of tasks for today, or if you want to focus on completing the two from yesterday 2011-05-19 10:40:42+0000 <rogerio> thank xavier 2011-05-19 10:40:49+0000 <rogerio> thanks 2011-05-19 10:40:53+0000 <antoviaque> since it's the beginning I'd recommend completing the first one 2011-05-19 10:41:04+0000 <rogerio> hmm, ok 2011-05-19 10:41:07+0000 <antoviaque> this way you get to see the whole process 2011-05-19 10:41:11+0000 <antoviaque> but it's up to you 2011-05-19 10:41:18+0000 <rogerio> about that first one 2011-05-19 10:41:44+0000 <rogerio> dachary made a comment there 2011-05-19 10:41:55+0000 <antoviaque> what was the ticket # ? 2011-05-19 10:42:04+0000 <rogerio> #70 2011-05-19 10:42:17+0000 <rogerio> so, I understand that I have to change the solution 2011-05-19 10:42:34+0000 <antoviaque> yep, you need to store data on the DOM 2011-05-19 10:42:42+0000 tempuramerino (tempuramerino) is now online 2011-05-19 10:42:53+0000 <antoviaque> look for metadata in the code you'll get a few examples 2011-05-19 10:42:55+0000 <rogerio> I'll discuss with him after 2011-05-19 10:43:03+0000 <rogerio> great 2011-05-19 10:43:17+0000 <rogerio> I thought on another way to implement that 2011-05-19 10:43:50+0000 <rogerio> instead store value to test if a card was picked or not 2011-05-19 10:44:06+0000 <rogerio> so, I'll discuss with him this afternoon 2011-05-19 10:44:17+0000 <antoviaque> ok : ) 2011-05-19 10:44:34+0000 <rogerio> to make sure what would be the better solution 2011-05-19 10:45:02+0000 <rogerio> I have to go now, I'm afraid to be late 2011-05-19 10:45:06+0000 <da> rogerio: i remember you had questions about our current projects and the studio in general. Now that you're subscribed to buddypress, i sugest that you browse its content in the various groups. It can be a bit cahotic but i guess you'll learn some stuff. And i'll be glad to answer your questions after that 2011-05-19 10:45:07+0000 <antoviaque> yes - since dachary is the one reviewing the patches, it's good to check things with him 2011-05-19 10:45:20+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio: ok - good luck with your day of work : ) 2011-05-19 10:45:26+0000 <antoviaque> where you able to get the chat working? 2011-05-19 10:45:41+0000 <da> have a nice day rogerio :) 2011-05-19 10:46:12+0000 <rogerio> da: thanks da, I'll take a look o buddypress 2011-05-19 10:46:26+0000 <rogerio> da: have a nice day too, and thanks for the good talk 2011-05-19 10:46:50+0000 <da> yes, good talk i agree 2011-05-19 10:47:01+0000 <rogerio> I tried to connect yesterday on Cemig 2011-05-19 10:47:20+0000 <rogerio> on my time of lunch I can try to do this 2011-05-19 10:47:39+0000 <antoviaque> ok : ) 2011-05-19 10:47:54+0000 <antoviaque> Keep some time for yourself though : ) 2011-05-19 10:47:57+0000 <antoviaque> have a great day! 2011-05-19 10:48:14+0000 <rogerio> thanks Xavier 2011-05-19 10:48:21+0000 <rogerio> see you 2011-05-19 10:48:22+0000 <rogerio> bye 2011-05-19 11:26:23+0000 <antoviaque> da: if you want a task for today :p http://cardstori.es/trac/ticket/76 2011-05-19 11:26:51+0000 <da> thanks :) 2011-05-19 11:26:55+0000 <romulo> good morning 2011-05-19 11:26:57+0000 <antoviaque> :D 2011-05-19 11:27:01+0000 <antoviaque> hello romulo! 2011-05-19 11:27:19+0000 <romulo> hi there antoviaque 2011-05-19 11:27:29+0000 <antoviaque> bbl - lunch is ready : ) 2011-05-19 11:27:32+0000 <romulo> how are you all? 2011-05-19 11:27:38+0000 <antoviaque> should be back in 45 minutes I think 2011-05-19 11:27:42+0000 <antoviaque> very good : ) 2011-05-19 11:27:46+0000 <antoviaque> and you? 2011-05-19 11:27:51+0000 <romulo> sick :/ 2011-05-19 11:27:56+0000 <antoviaque> damned :/ 2011-05-19 11:28:01+0000 <romulo> just a cold 2011-05-19 11:28:09+0000 <antoviaque> I'll catch up with you in a moment - bbl 2011-05-19 11:28:22+0000 <romulo> ok 2011-05-19 11:29:33+0000 <romulo> tartarugafeliz, out for lunch too? 2011-05-19 11:51:35+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yes 2011-05-19 11:57:07+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: back : ) 2011-05-19 11:57:16+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, hi there =] 2011-05-19 11:57:23+0000 <antoviaque> hope the cold is not too bad :/ 2011-05-19 11:57:28+0000 <romulo> nah, just headaches 2011-05-19 11:58:00+0000 <antoviaque> I hate feeling sick 2011-05-19 11:58:05+0000 <antoviaque> It makes me sick 2011-05-19 11:58:08+0000 * antoviaque is very funny today 2011-05-19 11:58:21+0000 <romulo> xD 2011-05-19 11:58:27+0000 <antoviaque> ;p 2011-05-19 11:58:35+0000 <romulo> http://cardstori.es/trac/ticket/21#comment:7 2011-05-19 11:58:38+0000 <romulo> can you take a look? 2011-05-19 11:59:17+0000 <antoviaque> yup 2011-05-19 11:59:20+0000 <antoviaque> reading 2011-05-19 12:00:53+0000 <antoviaque> I'm replying there, it will be easier - then we can discuss if you have questions 2011-05-19 12:00:59+0000 <romulo> exactly =] 2011-05-19 12:01:12+0000 <romulo> thats why i posted there instead of coming to the channel with it 2011-05-19 12:02:03+0000 <romulo> Also, I dont want to sound like a complainer but cardstories/*.py barely have any comments on code. 2011-05-19 12:03:02+0000 <antoviaque> ahah, I've complained a lot to dachary about this already ;p 2011-05-19 12:03:37+0000 <antoviaque> Try to tell him too, so that he can know this is a need 2011-05-19 12:04:04+0000 <antoviaque> but he also has good arguments, about the fact that comments require maintenance, and that out of date comments can actually complicate issues 2011-05-19 12:04:20+0000 <antoviaque> but all in all, I think more comments would help to understand the code 2011-05-19 12:04:48+0000 <antoviaque> Actually I will be glad if you put comments in your code - I try to do that too : ) 2011-05-19 12:06:48+0000 <romulo> yeah, im trying to do it 2011-05-19 12:07:37+0000 <romulo> And i disagree with his arguments. Comments DO require maintenance but they will save your life in 5/6 months ahead of now, when you dont remember *why* exactly you wrote something. 2011-05-19 12:08:28+0000 <romulo> but ill talk to him personally about that =P 2011-05-19 12:11:37+0000 <antoviaque> please do : ) 2011-05-19 12:11:41+0000 <antoviaque> http://cardstori.es/trac/ticket/21#comment:8 2011-05-19 12:12:55+0000 <antoviaque> hope it makes sense 2011-05-19 12:15:53+0000 <antoviaque> good questions btw - I can see that you have really put thoughts into doing the task well 2011-05-19 12:17:29+0000 <romulo> this task is big :( 2011-05-19 12:17:37+0000 <romulo> i mean, lots of tiny details 2011-05-19 12:17:46+0000 <antoviaque> yup, emails are tricky 2011-05-19 12:18:36+0000 <antoviaque> but don't worry, if it ends up being much more work than expected, we can reevaluate the task 2011-05-19 12:24:07+0000 <romulo> http://cardstori.es/trac/ticket/21#comment:9 2011-05-19 12:26:54+0000 <antoviaque> http://cardstori.es/trac/ticket/21#comment:10 2011-05-19 12:27:45+0000 <romulo> one second 2011-05-19 12:31:57+0000 <romulo> working on a proper email sender class 2011-05-19 12:32:43+0000 <antoviaque> good luck ;p 2011-05-19 12:34:43+0000 <romulo> also checking how the damn chinese companies manage to send me very-pretty-full-of-images-emails 2011-05-19 12:37:50+0000 <antoviaque> ahaha : ) 2011-05-19 12:43:56+0000 <romulo> btw, how am i supposed to send email to the game owner if i dont know his email? 2011-05-19 12:44:00+0000 <romulo> address* 2011-05-19 12:44:23+0000 <antoviaque> right now it's his login name 2011-05-19 12:44:57+0000 <antoviaque> if you look at http://cardstories.antoviaque.org:4923/static/ you'll see that on the new mockups players are asked to provide their email, instead of their name 2011-05-19 12:45:24+0000 <antoviaque> this will likely change later on when we actually integrate a CMS to handle accounts and personal info 2011-05-19 12:46:14+0000 <antoviaque> but in the meantime you can replicate the behavior of the invitations email function, which checks the format of the login name 2011-05-19 12:47:06+0000 <romulo> yeah, i though about that 2011-05-19 12:47:11+0000 <romulo> but left for discussion 2011-05-19 12:47:32+0000 <romulo> also, there are two invitations. One happens when you create the game, the other happens when the game already exists. Should i send email on both? 2011-05-19 12:47:56+0000 <antoviaque> not sure what you mean 2011-05-19 12:48:50+0000 <romulo> When you create a new game, it asks you for friends information, so you can invite them 2011-05-19 12:48:52+0000 <romulo> right? 2011-05-19 12:49:04+0000 <romulo> You can also invite friends, after you just created the game. 2011-05-19 12:55:01+0000 <antoviaque> hmmm 2011-05-19 12:55:09+0000 <antoviaque> (sorry dachary arrived : ) ) 2011-05-19 12:55:47+0000 <romulo> =] 2011-05-19 12:56:03+0000 <antoviaque> actually it's always the same step, 'advertise': http://cardstories.antoviaque.org:4923/static/?skin=advertise 2011-05-19 12:56:16+0000 <antoviaque> ahh, but you mean from the webservice, of course 2011-05-19 12:56:23+0000 <antoviaque> sorry 2011-05-19 12:56:53+0000 <antoviaque> that part I know less well - I assumed it was always the same action from the service 2011-05-19 12:57:10+0000 <romulo> i guess its one action from auth.py and another from game.py but im not sure 2011-05-19 12:57:19+0000 <antoviaque> I would dig the code for you, but since dachary is going to login, it will probably be easier to ask him 2011-05-19 12:58:30+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, ok, using <table background='external-url'> works for all mailers (gmail, hotmail, yahoo) 2011-05-19 12:58:38+0000 <antoviaque> cool : ) 2011-05-19 12:58:43+0000 <romulo> unfortunately, embedded doesnt 2011-05-19 12:59:08+0000 <antoviaque> that solves the issue then ;p 2011-05-19 12:59:13+0000 <romulo> i guess so. 2011-05-19 12:59:41+0000 <romulo> can i access files from farsides.com/files directly? If so, where should i point to? 2011-05-19 13:00:05+0000 <antoviaque> nope, this is more an internal repository, not meant to serve files for production 2011-05-19 13:00:15+0000 <antoviaque> ah, but in the ticket I said to serve from farsides.com 2011-05-19 13:00:25+0000 <antoviaque> my bad - I meant from the game URL 2011-05-19 13:00:34+0000 <romulo> hmm ok 2011-05-19 13:00:42+0000 <romulo> i created on emails folder on /static anyway =P 2011-05-19 13:00:48+0000 <romulo> with the files tartarugafeliz sent me 2011-05-19 13:00:54+0000 <antoviaque> sounds good : ) 2011-05-19 13:00:58+0000 <romulo> anyway, what email application are you using? 2011-05-19 13:01:02+0000 <romulo> let me send a test email for you 2011-05-19 13:01:06+0000 <antoviaque> evolution 2011-05-19 13:01:11+0000 <antoviaque> [email protected] 2011-05-19 13:01:28+0000 <romulo> sent 2011-05-19 13:01:53+0000 <antoviaque> got it : ) 2011-05-19 13:01:59+0000 <romulo> i would ask you and david to consider that i only spent 2 hours on the bug yesterday, and give me more time to work on it today 2011-05-19 13:02:21+0000 <tartarugafeliz> can you send me too? 2011-05-19 13:02:24+0000 <romulo> bad throat and headaches got me mostly, but im mostly well now. Also, i had to discuss all those issues 2011-05-19 13:02:26+0000 <tartarugafeliz> [email protected] 2011-05-19 13:02:26+0000 <romulo> tartarugafeliz, sure 2011-05-19 13:02:30+0000 <tartarugafeliz> :D 2011-05-19 13:02:33+0000 <antoviaque> evolution only displays embedded images, never external ones, so I don't see the images, but this is normal 2011-05-19 13:02:33+0000 <tartarugafeliz> valeu! 2011-05-19 13:03:12+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, so you see the background image? 2011-05-19 13:03:32+0000 <romulo> there is one embedded image and two external ones. One from Castorgroup and the another one that is the bg 2011-05-19 13:03:41+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: ok - the best is to try to stick to the deadlines (otherwise things start to drag on), but here no problem , I understand 2011-05-19 13:03:54+0000 <antoviaque> Nope, I see neither of them 2011-05-19 13:03:58+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, yeah i know about the deadlines. My bad on this one. 2011-05-19 13:04:04+0000 <antoviaque> np 2011-05-19 13:04:06+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, You see nothing? hmm... 2011-05-19 13:04:20+0000 <romulo> There *is* an embedded image. Will try to send another email with cardstories logo ok? 2011-05-19 13:05:41+0000 <romulo> ok, re-sent. Can you and tartarugafeliz check if you got one now with embedded imgs? 2011-05-19 13:05:47+0000 <antoviaque> hmm, actually the option have changed there since the last time I checked 2011-05-19 13:06:01+0000 * antoviaque looks at evolution's config 2011-05-19 13:06:18+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yes, mine came with a background and a castor group ahahahahah 2011-05-19 13:06:29+0000 <romulo> tartarugafeliz, cool =D 2011-05-19 13:06:40+0000 <romulo> will stop sending my logo to ppl :P 2011-05-19 13:06:50+0000 <antoviaque> ahahahah 2011-05-19 13:07:16+0000 <antoviaque> No, still not - but don't pay too much attention about mine, evolution isn't very good with images 2011-05-19 13:07:47+0000 <antoviaque> If Thunderbird + Outlook can see them, I'm fine : ) 2011-05-19 13:08:15+0000 <romulo> can i spam another wave? 2011-05-19 13:08:20+0000 <antoviaque> ok course 2011-05-19 13:08:27+0000 <antoviaque> as much as you need 2011-05-19 13:08:33+0000 <romulo> tartarugafeliz, any problem? 2011-05-19 13:10:14+0000 da (da) is now online 2011-05-19 13:11:14+0000 <romulo> ok spam wave going 2011-05-19 13:11:31+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, tartarugafeliz check now pls 2011-05-19 13:13:11+0000 <tartarugafeliz> the logo is wrong, sorry 2011-05-19 13:13:15+0000 <tartarugafeliz> I'm uploading the right one 2011-05-19 13:13:25+0000 <romulo> oh, but does it all show? 2011-05-19 13:13:54+0000 <romulo> background, external img, and logo + monster 2011-05-19 13:14:11+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-05-19 13:14:29+0000 <dachary> https://github.com/danielweinmann/catarse#readme 2011-05-19 13:14:32+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: ^ 2011-05-19 13:14:47+0000 <romulo> dachary, yo =] 2011-05-19 13:17:14+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yes, it all shows 2011-05-19 13:17:55+0000 <romulo> good. Using gmail directly? 2011-05-19 13:19:35+0000 <romulo> dachary, Im looking @ auth.py where you send the invitation emails and noticed that there is also a invite function o game.py. They work separated? 2011-05-19 13:20:14+0000 <dachary> romulo: yes 2011-05-19 13:20:24+0000 <dachary> completly separated 2011-05-19 13:20:32+0000 <romulo> dachary, so the invitation emails should be sent from both places? 2011-05-19 13:21:45+0000 <dachary> romulo: the game logic (game.py) must know nothing about sending mails or the like. It just needs to know which player has been sent an invitation because it needs to know that the game is bound to the player. 2011-05-19 13:22:44+0000 <romulo> dachary, i was thinking about attaching the email notifications at game.py state_change() but since you said that, where should i? 2011-05-19 13:23:53+0000 <dachary> romulo: I'm not sure where it should be. I know for sure that it must not be in the game logic. The game logic must remain to the bare minimum and not deal with external sub systems such as mail or even user authentication. 2011-05-19 13:24:49+0000 <romulo> dachary, maybe we could just forward email handler calls *from* game.py? 2011-05-19 13:27:52+0000 <dachary> romulo: I don't follow, could you expand(your thoughts) ? ;-) 2011-05-19 13:29:10+0000 <romulo> game.py knows the game states. So when the game changes, it is aware of it. We could then, from game.py call functions to handle each notification type that are on a separated part of the code. 2011-05-19 13:29:34+0000 <romulo> OR there should be a way to know that game state changed from outside game.py 2011-05-19 13:41:13+0000 <romulo> tartarugafeliz, you see any problem in merging "click here to play" + down arrow + "card stories logo" in invitation? 2011-05-19 13:41:34+0000 <romulo> unless we should reuse the images 2011-05-19 13:41:49+0000 <romulo> brb 2011-05-19 13:42:35+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: the button is clickable, but the rest is not, so you'll need to differentiate 2011-05-19 14:06:42+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: if you could build a VM of http://www.turnkeylinux.org/redmine it would be helpful :p 2011-05-19 14:07:23+0000 * antoviaque is screwing up his ruby install :p 2011-05-19 14:07:28+0000 * dachary working on it 2011-05-19 14:08:36+0000 <antoviaque> thanks :D 2011-05-19 14:09:29+0000 <dachary> 252,764,160 76.8M/s in 3.1s for http://www.turnkeylinux.org/download?file=turnkey-redmine-11.1-lucid-x86.iso antoviaque your server is *fast* 2011-05-19 14:09:49+0000 <antoviaque> yep, OVH is good for these things 2011-05-19 14:10:11+0000 <romulo> im going to my other work =P 2011-05-19 14:10:14+0000 <antoviaque> oh, but 76 M/s - probably hosted in OVH ;p 2011-05-19 14:10:17+0000 <romulo> then ill talk to you from there 2011-05-19 14:10:24+0000 <romulo> dachary, we need to decide about the invitation code 2011-05-19 14:10:24+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: ok ; ) 2011-05-19 14:10:43+0000 <romulo> dachary, if you think about anything, write a comment on #21 please 2011-05-19 14:10:54+0000 <dachary> romulo: I sure will 2011-05-19 14:11:05+0000 <romulo> thank 2011-05-19 14:11:08+0000 <romulo> thanks* 2011-05-19 14:11:09+0000 <romulo> bbs =] 2011-05-19 14:12:13+0000 <dachary> Thu May 19 16:11:59 2011 adding instance farsides-tickets.politis.vm.gnt to cluster config 2011-05-19 14:12:20+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: should be ready in ~30min 2011-05-19 14:12:37+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: would you like to assign a public IP to it ? 2011-05-19 14:12:42+0000 <antoviaque> yup : ) 2011-05-19 14:13:18+0000 <antoviaque> thanque iou veri mutche 2011-05-19 14:13:51+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: :-) 2011-05-19 14:14:03+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: could you bind 91.121.254.238 to a farsides name please ? 2011-05-19 14:14:08+0000 <antoviaque> yep 2011-05-19 14:14:11+0000 * dachary working the firewall 2011-05-19 14:14:27+0000 <antoviaque> done => tickets.farsides.com 2011-05-19 14:14:57+0000 <antoviaque> I'll do the reverse too 2011-05-19 14:21:55+0000 * dachary working the nagios configuration 2011-05-19 14:28:00+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: your IP on the LAN is 10.10.1.129 2011-05-19 14:28:17+0000 <dachary> router & DNS 10.10.0.254 2011-05-19 14:28:21+0000 <dachary> netmask /32 2011-05-19 14:28:29+0000 <antoviaque> thanks!!! 2011-05-19 14:28:33+0000 <antoviaque> :D 2011-05-19 15:20:48+0000 romulo (romulo) is now online 2011-05-19 15:25:50+0000 <romulo> im back 2011-05-19 15:26:00+0000 <antoviaque> re : ) 2011-05-19 15:27:44+0000 <romulo> =] 2011-05-19 15:27:49+0000 <romulo> so dachary any suggestion? 2011-05-19 15:37:29+0000 <dachary> romulo: no suggestion. 2011-05-19 15:37:37+0000 * dachary busy with other things ;-) 2011-05-19 15:39:04+0000 <romulo> dachary, would you be mad at me if i put some calls to mail invitations in game.py ? 2011-05-19 15:39:04+0000 <romulo> :D 2011-05-19 15:39:26+0000 <romulo> or would be better to let game tell other modules about its states and then fire from there? 2011-05-19 15:40:00+0000 <dachary> romulo: you can do whatever you like in your own repository. I can promise you the patches won't make it to mine ;-) 2011-05-19 15:44:15+0000 * romulo shrugs 2011-05-19 15:44:54+0000 <romulo> will try to solve by the second solution. (Trying to let other modules know about game state and firing from outside) 2011-05-19 15:45:55+0000 <romulo> btw, i was telling antoviaque that the code lacks comments :'( Most of the stuff is undocumented or have a simply tiny comment 2011-05-19 15:53:00+0000 <dachary> I don't believe in comments 2011-05-19 15:54:48+0000 <dachary> romulo: did you notice that you can register callbacks to the game ? 2011-05-19 15:54:55+0000 <romulo> yes 2011-05-19 15:56:17+0000 <dachary> this way you can implement a facility that will react to any game change, without the need to modify the core of the game logic. 2011-05-19 15:56:50+0000 <dachary> I'm not sure why you seem to think this is less convenient than altering the game logic to enable it to send mails. 2011-05-19 15:57:04+0000 <dachary> romulo: ^ 2011-05-19 15:59:18+0000 <romulo> dachary, that was what i proposed on the second idea :P 2011-05-19 15:59:34+0000 <dachary> regarding comments, I should add that I don't believe in comments because you can read the tests to figure out how the code is supposed to work. It may not be written in plain English, but it has the advantage of being accurate, always. When I read a test that just ran successfully, I know for sure I'm learning something valuable about the code. When I read a comment, I can't be sure if it is correct or misleading. 2011-05-19 16:00:09+0000 <dachary> romulo: re: second idea. Why exactly do you think the second idea not as good as the first ? 2011-05-19 16:00:33+0000 <romulo> take stuff out of the game logic - thats why - 2011-05-19 16:01:33+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2011-05-19 16:02:05+0000 <dachary> romulo: I'm lost. The first solution is to add mail to the game logic. The second solution is to implement an independant layer that reacts to events emitted by the game logic. Are we on the same page ? 2011-05-19 16:04:13+0000 <dachary> My understanding is that you refer to : 2011-05-19 16:04:15+0000 <romulo> yeah =P 2011-05-19 16:04:16+0000 <dachary> First : (05:39:05 PM) romulo: dachary, would you be mad at me if i put some calls to mail invitations in game.py ? 2011-05-19 16:04:38+0000 <dachary> Second : (05:39:28 PM) romulo: or would be better to let game tell other modules about its states and then fire from there? 2011-05-19 16:05:06+0000 <romulo> exactly that 2011-05-19 16:05:35+0000 <dachary> Could you please explain 2011-05-19 16:05:36+0000 <dachary> (06:00:34 PM) romulo: take stuff out of the game logic - thats why - 2011-05-19 16:05:39+0000 <dachary> I don't follow 2011-05-19 16:06:30+0000 <romulo> You said to me its better to not modify the core of the game logic. Hence why capturing game states and sending emails *outside* the game is a better idea than modify it to send the emails 2011-05-19 16:07:24+0000 <dachary> I think the second solution is better indeed. 2011-05-19 16:07:51+0000 <romulo> thats my point =P 2011-05-19 16:07:53+0000 <romulo> And regard comments and tests cases: test cases do not explain how code works, or what principle you are using to write it, they just prove that the code works for a specific case, no matter what path it takes. For a working, fresh and simple code, fine. But if you come back to the same code like 6 months ahead of now, you will find yourself analyzing the code to understand -how- and -why- you wrote it that way. But thats just personal opinion. 2011-05-19 16:09:40+0000 <dachary> romulo: if you advocate for the second solution, we are in agreement. I was under the impression that you preferred the first solution. Could you confirm that you do not like the first solution and that you've always preferred the second solution ? I'm trying to stop the massive confusion I'm in. 2011-05-19 16:10:19+0000 <romulo> yeah, i advocate for the second one. It seems clear to me. 2011-05-19 16:10:46+0000 <dachary> When you said : "(05:39:05 PM) romulo: dachary, would you be mad at me if i put some calls to mail invitations in game.py ?" I inferred that you preferred the first solution. 2011-05-19 16:12:13+0000 <romulo> ah, no :P 2011-05-19 16:12:21+0000 <romulo> i was just throwing ideas 2011-05-19 16:12:36+0000 <romulo> since i asked you first if you had any suggestion 2011-05-19 16:13:07+0000 <dachary> In order to avoid such confusions in the future, if you require my advice on something, please make it clear which solution you prefer. 2011-05-19 16:14:02+0000 <romulo> sure. 2011-05-19 16:14:07+0000 <dachary> thank you :-) 2011-05-19 16:14:20+0000 * dachary glad we're in agreement 2011-05-19 16:15:21+0000 * romulo is glad that we can focus on code now 2011-05-19 16:15:50+0000 <dachary> romulo: re comments. Unless you can show me a fully tested code base you've worked on over the years, I respectfully think you're mistaken. 2011-05-19 16:20:08+0000 <romulo> bbl lunch time 2011-05-19 16:51:58+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: http://cardstori.es/trac/ticket/15 I'm not sure if it needs my attention. It looks like it does but it's not assigned to me. I'll let you sort this out ;-) 2011-05-19 17:16:02+0000 Jonathan___ (Jonathan___) is now online 2011-05-19 17:16:17+0000 rogerio (rogerio) is now online 2011-05-19 17:16:35+0000 <rogerio> hi 2011-05-19 17:16:41+0000 <rogerio> Xavier 2011-05-19 17:16:43+0000 <Jonathan___> Well, hello people! 2011-05-19 17:16:54+0000 <rogerio> hello 2011-05-19 17:16:56+0000 <antoviaque> hi again rogerio : ) 2011-05-19 17:16:59+0000 <antoviaque> Hello Jonathan___ : ) 2011-05-19 17:17:02+0000 <Jonathan___> Dropping by just to say hi, hope to not disturb busy-working people ;) 2011-05-19 17:17:03+0000 <rogerio> antoviaque: Hi 2011-05-19 17:17:17+0000 <antoviaque> Jonathan___: ahahah, you're not disturbing at all, welcome : ) 2011-05-19 17:17:22+0000 <rogerio> where is Dachary? 2011-05-19 17:17:32+0000 <antoviaque> Jonathan___: how are you? 2011-05-19 17:17:57+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio: he just left the chat, he went back to his home 2011-05-19 17:18:05+0000 <Jonathan___> Well I'm good thanks, it's been ages mr. Antoviaque :) And how do you do yourself ? 2011-05-19 17:18:18+0000 <rogerio> hmm, :( 2011-05-19 17:18:22+0000 <rogerio> no problem 2011-05-19 17:18:33+0000 <antoviaque> I'm sure he'll be back : ) 2011-05-19 17:18:50+0000 <rogerio> ok, great 2011-05-19 17:18:52+0000 <rogerio> :) 2011-05-19 17:19:00+0000 <rogerio> thanks Xavier 2011-05-19 17:19:06+0000 <Jonathan___> End of my busy day, brain melting, so as David invited me to drop by and say Hi, I thought I would take a breather and just do that ! 2011-05-19 17:20:06+0000 <Jonathan___> Especially as I had a look at your currently running projects, and had a couple of ideas I thought I should come and share with you guys :) 2011-05-19 17:20:19+0000 <antoviaque> ah, cool :D 2011-05-19 17:20:33+0000 <antoviaque> yep, David told me 2011-05-19 17:20:48+0000 <antoviaque> So you had a look at Card Stories and HPO? 2011-05-19 17:20:57+0000 <Jonathan___> mostly HPO TBH 2011-05-19 17:21:04+0000 <Jonathan___> Card stories very briefly 2011-05-19 17:21:23+0000 <Jonathan___> I even tried your prototype until the end actually heheh 2011-05-19 17:21:40+0000 <Jonathan___> (HPO prototype) 2011-05-19 17:22:31+0000 <antoviaque> ahahah, well done : ) 2011-05-19 17:22:40+0000 <antoviaque> It's not always easy to guess what to do 2011-05-19 17:22:44+0000 <Jonathan___> it got me thinking :) Lots of stuff left to do for sure, but some good solid core ideas are in there 2011-05-19 17:22:58+0000 <antoviaque> Yup, it's shaping quite nicely 2011-05-19 17:23:09+0000 <antoviaque> Still *a lot* of work though, yep 2011-05-19 17:23:37+0000 <antoviaque> That's why we're focusing on Card Stories first, which is less ambitious, so it will be a good first milestone to build an audience 2011-05-19 17:23:47+0000 <antoviaque> So what ideas did you have? 2011-05-19 17:24:20+0000 <Jonathan___> quite a few, but going in different directions heheh (each one corresponding to a difference/packing of the game) 2011-05-19 17:24:34+0000 <Jonathan___> *different audience/* 2011-05-19 17:26:34+0000 <Jonathan___> thinking it could evolve either as a serious game focused on raising people awareness about some world issues via a catchy cyber-game, OR a social multiplayer game exploiting social networks like facebook to build a kinda niche experience as a "cool cyber war game" 2011-05-19 17:27:08+0000 <Jonathan___> reminded me of some old card games, some kind of sleek futuristic visuals 2011-05-19 17:28:37+0000 <Jonathan___> Maybe totally different from what you have in mind heheh, but at least i started to view it in my own way :) 2011-05-19 17:36:03+0000 <antoviaque> yep, I agree with you, there are several possible paths 2011-05-19 17:36:47+0000 <antoviaque> and actually both ways would be interesting : ) 2011-05-19 17:37:09+0000 <antoviaque> what do think has the most potential? 2011-05-19 17:39:30+0000 <Jonathan___> well if I knew that I would already be rich ;) 2011-05-19 17:39:58+0000 <antoviaque> ahahah : ) 2011-05-19 17:40:01+0000 <Jonathan___> But I would say it depends of a few things: what do you want to do, and how do you want to get financed to do it 2011-05-19 17:40:23+0000 <Jonathan___> the serious game approach might be interesting right now to get some financial backing to fund the project 2011-05-19 17:41:24+0000 <Jonathan___> but on the other end, I think the game, with some tweaks and adaptations, could be an innovative and original game for social networks, one that could seduce a mature audience, and offer a different experience than the usual copycats of farmville 2011-05-19 17:42:01+0000 <antoviaque> yep, this is a clear vision of the situation imho : ) 2011-05-19 17:42:27+0000 <antoviaque> The type of funding we can target will effectively influence the decision 2011-05-19 17:43:18+0000 <antoviaque> It also depends on the players reaction 2011-05-19 17:43:51+0000 <Jonathan___> i'd maybe avoid the serious game path for a design issue though: the game is pretty close to a "learning app" in its look&feel, and even with some tweakings i fear that coupling this design + serious topic might flag it as "duh, boring, do not even want to try" 2011-05-19 17:44:15+0000 <antoviaque> yup - funny, that's what I was writting : ) 2011-05-19 17:44:35+0000 <Jonathan___> it looks like an OS/just windows & such, and I doubt you'll bring in 3D avatars, so ... it might make some people run away ;) 2011-05-19 17:44:42+0000 <antoviaque> the playtests done in January shown that it needed to move more to the "fun" and give a more gamy feeling 2011-05-19 17:44:53+0000 <antoviaque> exactly 2011-05-19 17:45:07+0000 <antoviaque> Deborah and Matti did some work on the interface level 2011-05-19 17:45:12+0000 <Jonathan___> that's a good feedback i'd say 2011-05-19 17:45:18+0000 <antoviaque> it early drafts, but let me show you 2011-05-19 17:45:21+0000 <Jonathan___> but more than just the interface 2011-05-19 17:45:27+0000 <antoviaque> yep 2011-05-19 17:45:30+0000 <antoviaque> I know : ) 2011-05-19 17:45:36+0000 <Jonathan___> i'm sure you do ;) 2011-05-19 17:45:51+0000 <Jonathan___> probably the core of the game as well should be gamey 2011-05-19 17:46:38+0000 <antoviaque> inspiration for the interface => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXZTfaM-kzw 2011-05-19 17:46:46+0000 <Jonathan___> bring a gamey activity into something which doesn't initially look "fun" (browsing, tagging pages, chatting, etc.), will make it interesting i think 2011-05-19 17:46:59+0000 <antoviaque> yup 2011-05-19 17:47:15+0000 <Jonathan___> yes definitely wanna tap into something like that 2011-05-19 17:47:27+0000 <Jonathan___> flesh out your backstory 2011-05-19 17:47:31+0000 <antoviaque> It will be one of Charles' (game designer) tasks when he gets to work on HPO 2011-05-19 17:47:45+0000 <antoviaque> yup, definitely 2011-05-19 17:47:51+0000 <Jonathan___> invent a crazy-cool OS for spies maybe, and make it look like a super-hacker from the future interface 2011-05-19 17:47:59+0000 <antoviaque> exactly : ) 2011-05-19 17:48:04+0000 <Jonathan___> then tie both of them 2011-05-19 17:48:16+0000 <antoviaque> you've got it ;p 2011-05-19 17:48:16+0000 <Jonathan___> and it'll start to build up :) 2011-05-19 17:48:27+0000 <antoviaque> and what about you btw? what are you up to lately? 2011-05-19 17:48:46+0000 <Jonathan___> david didn't tell you a bit about it ? 2011-05-19 17:48:58+0000 <Jonathan___> well i'm making a serious social game right now :p 2011-05-19 17:49:02+0000 <antoviaque> he showed me one of the game you worked on yep : ) 2011-05-19 17:49:06+0000 <antoviaque> but not much more 2011-05-19 17:49:09+0000 <antoviaque> oh : ) 2011-05-19 17:49:10+0000 <Jonathan___> ho i see 2011-05-19 17:49:17+0000 <Jonathan___> guess it was my iphone point & click 2011-05-19 17:49:40+0000 <Jonathan___> have a few social games behind me now as well ... 2011-05-19 17:49:43+0000 <Jonathan___> been busy :p 2011-05-19 17:50:02+0000 <antoviaque> yep, it was : ) 2011-05-19 17:50:06+0000 <antoviaque> I can see that ;p 2011-05-19 17:50:26+0000 <antoviaque> Can we play the serious social game somewhere? 2011-05-19 17:50:30+0000 <Jonathan___> and thinking about my future, and greener pasturesheheh 2011-05-19 17:50:43+0000 <Jonathan___> unfortunately no, not yet 2011-05-19 17:51:32+0000 <Jonathan___> only game i handled which was released was "master chef" small social game on facebook, released laster summer 2011-05-19 17:51:49+0000 <Jonathan___> but it went offline a few months after the show ended (the page is still there, but nothing to play) 2011-05-19 17:51:56+0000 <antoviaque> ok 2011-05-19 17:57:37+0000 <antoviaque> and are there things that you would be interested to do in Farsides ? 2011-05-19 18:02:52+0000 <Jonathan___> well, maybe, yes ;) 2011-05-19 18:04:50+0000 <antoviaque> what in particular? 2011-05-19 18:05:31+0000 <antoviaque> on the marketing side, I guess ;p - but I mean what do you usually like to do ? 2011-05-19 18:09:58+0000 <Jonathan___> marketing ? urgggh not anymore 2011-05-19 18:10:17+0000 <antoviaque> project management ? 2011-05-19 18:10:23+0000 <Jonathan___> well sure i still got some insights on that end, but i quit that a while ago now 2011-05-19 18:10:34+0000 <Jonathan___> yep, project management/directing/game design 2011-05-19 18:11:02+0000 <antoviaque> Cool : ) 2011-05-19 18:11:23+0000 <antoviaque> There is definitely a lot to do in that area 2011-05-19 18:11:24+0000 <Jonathan___> yep, my current position is game producer 2011-05-19 18:11:41+0000 <Jonathan___> and i usually also wear my project director hat at the same time 2011-05-19 18:11:53+0000 <Jonathan___> help here & there in GD/LD stuff ... 2011-05-19 18:11:58+0000 <antoviaque> I see - now that you mention it, David told me yup! 2011-05-19 18:12:02+0000 <Jonathan___> :) 2011-05-19 18:13:10+0000 <antoviaque> I'll be very interested to have your feedback in that area 2011-05-19 18:13:51+0000 <antoviaque> if you stick around here, you'll see that the organization is quite different from what we usually get in videogame projects : ) 2011-05-19 18:14:08+0000 <antoviaque> the free software/decentralized approach changes a lot of details 2011-05-19 18:14:27+0000 <antoviaque> it's really refreshing 2011-05-19 18:14:32+0000 <romulo> im back 2011-05-19 18:14:44+0000 <antoviaque> but on the other side there are a lot of challenges in how to adapt - so advices would be most welcome 2011-05-19 18:14:51+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: welcome back : ) 2011-05-19 18:16:30+0000 <antoviaque> I'll go eat diner soon 2011-05-19 18:17:41+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, pm 2011-05-19 18:25:28+0000 <antoviaque> ok I have to go to eat 2011-05-19 18:25:34+0000 <antoviaque> bbl : ) 2011-05-19 18:25:54+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, have a nice dinner 2011-05-19 18:26:01+0000 <antoviaque> thanks : ) 2011-05-19 18:32:06+0000 <Jonathan___> Xavier > actually my company employs people in two subsidiaries in Poland & Vietnam 2011-05-19 18:32:46+0000 <Jonathan___> i mostly work with remote teams already, and yes it is indeed quite different from a traditional organization 2011-05-19 18:33:36+0000 <Jonathan___> though i'm not that familiar with the free software/open source/full transparency world yet 2011-05-19 18:34:42+0000 <Jonathan___> i would happy to provide you some feedbacks & advice from my personal experiences sure 2011-05-19 18:35:08+0000 <Jonathan___> would be happy* 2011-05-19 18:35:46+0000 <Jonathan___> i have good and horrible experiences to share heheh 2011-05-19 18:39:33+0000 <romulo> Share horrible experiences now yay \o/ 2011-05-19 18:41:51+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-05-19 18:42:12+0000 <dachary> back 2011-05-19 18:42:22+0000 <dachary> eve__: hi 2011-05-19 18:42:22+0000 <eve> wotcha 2011-05-19 18:42:25+0000 <dachary> eve__: hi 2011-05-19 18:42:25+0000 <eve> howdy 2011-05-19 18:42:29+0000 <dachary> eve__: hi 2011-05-19 18:42:29+0000 <eve> hi 2011-05-19 18:42:30+0000 <dachary> eve__: hi 2011-05-19 18:42:30+0000 <eve> howsit 2011-05-19 18:42:32+0000 <dachary> eve__: hi 2011-05-19 18:42:32+0000 <eve> wasup 2011-05-19 18:42:34+0000 <dachary> eve__: hi 2011-05-19 18:42:34+0000 <eve> howzit 2011-05-19 18:42:35+0000 <dachary> eve__: hi 2011-05-19 18:42:35+0000 <eve> Geez, give me some time to think! 2011-05-19 18:42:38+0000 <dachary> eve__: hi 2011-05-19 18:42:38+0000 <eve> Geez, give me some time to think! 2011-05-19 18:42:42+0000 <dachary> :-P 2011-05-19 18:45:44+0000 <Jonathan___> Romulo > heh, well ... we have something called "DoD" (day on demand) in our Poland subsidiary. It means people can take a day off for whatever reason, without having to explain why, without prior notice. So funny experiences I could share are like, on the morning of your milestone build delivery, your core developer uses a DoD, and abandon you in your sh** :D 2011-05-19 18:46:15+0000 <romulo> hahaha, well, thats a "excepted unexpected" 2011-05-19 18:46:27+0000 <romulo> mostly known as "shit happens" 2011-05-19 18:46:46+0000 <Jonathan___> yeaaaah, shit happens ... sometimes more than the other day ;) 2011-05-19 18:54:40+0000 <Jonathan___> Well people, i'll be off to my private life. See you around later, have a good day/night! 2011-05-19 18:55:16+0000 tempuramerino (tempuramerino) is now online 2011-05-19 19:08:13+0000 <dachary> tartarugafeliz: http://cardstori.es/ 2011-05-19 19:08:17+0000 <dachary> sexy :-D 2011-05-19 20:15:34+0000 romulo_ (romulo_) is now online 2011-05-19 20:15:48+0000 <dachary> tartarugafeliz: antoviaque copyright / credits line at the bottom is barely readable. It's sexy but not readable ;-) 2011-05-19 23:21:36+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online
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