Re: Why have you taken me off the list?

[Robin Duchesneau]

Merla,   Below is my boring scientific answer (nothing spiritual...).   In my opinion, just make certain that you are up and up on experimental rigor.  That is:  finding your control, having sufficient replication, randomization of your treatment (Rapid Lightning), and an appropriate statistical procedure.  I know this sounds highly technical and boring, but I've seen all too often people try to demonstrate the 'efficiency of a product' without any regards to proper experimental design, only to end up with nothing solid to show for.  In your case, you probably want to convince policy makers that 'Rapid Lightning' is a better solution then the spray that your municipality uses.   I fear that unless you have 'strong inference' they will hesitate in changing their 'weed control method'.  And here I won't go into politics...(sic)   Off the top of my head,   1) Your plots should be located on the side of roads that have similar conditions (e.g. similar plant community, soil type, slope, water retention capability...).  This way your are controlling for external effects.  Pick a few roads where you will put in plots (e.g. 30 plots per treatment).   2) You might want to test your product against other products.  If possible, get the product that the city uses (call that treatment A).  Then call your 'Rapid Lightning' treatment B.  Then if you so choose, you can add BD preps or peppers with A and B and call them treatments C and D.   3) In you plots along the side of the road, assign a treatment in a randomized fashion.  You can do this by giving each plot a number, then prepare a similar amount of small pieces of paper having A,B,C and D (your treatments) and put them in a hat. Finally pull paper pieces from the hat and assigning them to a plot number.  Then go to the plot and apply the treatment.   4) Measuring impact.  You will need to find a response variable to measure.  Since you are interested in 'changing the plant community from knapweed, tansy, and thistle (and others...) to native plants, you will probably want to quantify the amount of 'weeds' and native plants BEFORE and AFTER.  Percent cover in a plot should do.  This will give you a 'efficiency ratio' of the treatments.  If you also want you can measure other things like N,P,K, content, or anything else that you budget permits.   5) Statistics.  Gosh... What to say here... hmmm...  A test of ratio is a Chi-Square test.  You will need software.  It's not that difficult to do...  He he he... easy for me to say I do them all the time!   Boring stuff indeed!   I would also encourage you to learn about the life-histories of the plants in question.  For example, what is their ecological niche, reproductive strategies, and so on.  This will only help you figure out a good strategy for product utilization.   Because I have no idea of the extent of you project I will stop here.  If you need more information about scientific methods feel free to ask.   Again, and I know I say this often... Sounds like an interesting project.  It should not cost too much if you keep the soil analyses down.  Presence and Absence of plant species should do the trick.   Have fun,   Rbn         ----- Original Message ----- From: Allan Balliett To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 13, 2002 12:29 PM Subject: Fwd: Why have you taken me off the list? >fwd from Merla: >Thanks to anyone who's willing to take a stab at this. > >I'm trying to do test plots on Rapid Lightning to show that alternative >weed control methods are feasible by the county and to keep our road >from being sprayed. > >One of the possibilities for test plots is taking a soil analysis and >amending the soil to discourage the weeds and to encourage the other >native wild plants either alone or in conjunction with BD weed peppers. >We need something that people can do, something that is not too >complicated. > >1)  SOIL ANALYSIS >I have an opportunity to choose a private business (not the U. of Idaho) > >to do my organic soil analysis for the road.  Is there a place here in >the western U.S. where I can get this done? > >2) CONCEPTUALIZING TEST PLOTS ON SOIL CHANGES WHICH WOULD DISCOURAGE >KNAPWEED, COMMON TANSY OR THISTLE AND ENCOURAGE NATIVE PLANTS ON GLACIAL > >TILL SOIL IN THIS BRITTLE ENVIRONMENT. > >Actually, there are many wild plants that do all right on marginal >soils.  The trouble is that knapweed or hawkweed or common tansy can >come into these situations and take over the site because they are so >successful in drought situations possibly because they are allelopathic. > >When you do soil amending, you usually take all the plants off the plot >and dig it up mixing whatever compost, rock dust or BD prep you wish to >add. >In dealing with the road right-of-way, we have all kinds of native >plants and grasses growing on it.  You have hawkweed over an understory >of kinnickinnick and many other plants. > >I'm trying to conceptualize a series of test plots based on a soil >analysis.  Will I have to do this on some of the bare ground where the >county has ditched so that I can actually mix the amendments with the >soil to some kind of depth or is there any way to amend the soil and >leave the non-offensive native plants there?  Is there a specific way of > >discouraging knapweed, hawkweed and common tansy by changing the soil >besides using weed peppers or in conjunction with weed peppers? > >Anybody have any ideas? > >Thanks for suggestions.  I'm searching for something AGAIN. > >Merla