On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 1:34 PM Rahul Kuchhal <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am also trying to figure out the best way to represent Sold options that
> open new positions.
>
> The suggested approach below works (kind of).
>
> 2020-12-28 * "Sell March 1 PUT 200 on HOOL"
> Assets:Brokerage:Taxable:HOOL:Options -1 HOOL_PUT_200_2021_03_01
> {1000 USD}
> Assets:Brokerage:Taxable:Cash 1000 USD
>
> Seems like I would need to add a new currency to HOOL:Options account each
> time I open a new position. Overtime I suspect this may result in hundreds
> (or even thousands) of currencies attached to a single account.
>
That's what I do. My importer creates them automatically from the TOS log.
Here:
https://github.com/blais/ameritrade/blob/master/examples/ameritrade2beancount.py
I'm doing vertical and calendar spreads, collars, covered calls, and more.
It all works great with Beancount.
I can give a little demo of how to use bean-doctor to interactively compute
the P/L of an isolated sequence of trades if anyone cares.
The importer above groups the trades by underlying, and typically these are
positions being rolled, but not always. I may initiate multiple separate
trades with distinct history in the same underlying (either closing and
reopening, or over different months).
One of the issues is that "regular" activity - stock purchases and sales,
or short positions, as well as longer-term hedging on LEAPs, all happen in
the same account. I consider these logically distinct from the premium /
vol trading I do, so I want to separate them out. Here's how I do this:
when I import, I keep the active options traffic segregated to an include
file, one per week. I manually move the long term activity to my main
Beancount file, where it will remain forever. All the transactions are
tagged with TD's unique transaction ids, and when the importer runs it
automatically ignores anything that's been imported before, here:
https://github.com/blais/ameritrade/blob/master/examples/ameritrade2beancount.py#L912
I have been keeping each week in a separate file, with custom scripts to
compute realized and unrealized P/L by week.
However, as I've increased my volume and am holding positions over a longer
time, I'm finding I need something more sophisticated.
So I've started slowly moving away from using Beancount for that particular
activity, and have been building code that can automatically untangle each
trade directly from the TOS log, following it through multiple rolls over
time, and compute the total P/L once all the related legs are closed out.
It's nice as I can do per-trade analysis on spreads and all their history
of managing them that follows over multiple weeks, as a single "trade".
As far as the main ledger goes, I think I'll probably end up summarizing
the impact of realized P/L on a weekly basis through a single transaction
in my main Ledger file. There's no reason I'd need to keep all that traffic
in my main file, even if I'd still use Beancount for it (which I'm not
entirely sure I will for that activity).
1) Is there any downside of attaching so many currencies to a single
> account?
>
No. I do think that we may want to eventually add a regexp type of
commodity that can cover them all though.
You shouldn't have to insert them manually, have your importer do that.
So far it works well for me.
> 2) Is there a way to represent these transactions using the same currency
> over and over (based on the cost basis and date of options)
>
> 2020-12-28 * "STO March 1 PUT 200 on HOOL"
> Assets:Brokerage:Taxable:HOOL:Options -1 Options {1000 USD}
> Assets:Brokerage:Taxable:Cash 1000 USD
>
> 2020-12-30 * "BTC March 1 PUT 200 on HOOL"
> Assets:Brokerage:Taxable:HOOL:Options 1 Options {1000 USD} @ 990 USD
> Assets:Brokerage:Taxable:Cash -990 USD
> Income:PnL
>
>
I wouldn't do that. Part of the point of using Beancount is to figure out
what your inventory is and different options have different prices over
time (I use the Price directive, works well).
Besides it would have to be OPTIONS.
On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 5:11:26 PM UTC-5 Rajath wrote:
>
>> Two good approaches. The one where each option symbol is commoditized
>> more inline with how stocks are managed. But the second approach is also
>> very interesting because it accounts for assignment risk. My brokerage also
>> holds the collateral from available cash when I sell a put option, so maybe
>> I can find a way to represent that too (which says exactly how much cash I
>> have on hand to trade).
>>
>> I will play around with this!
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 1:16:10 PM UTC-8 [email protected]
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I count only the money in my account and control the sum of possible
>>> assignments. I don't have an "entity" option.
>>>
>>> For the options, I sell puts of stocks I want to buy and I have the
>>> money for doing it. So if it's assigned, no problem ;-)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 6:47 PM Martin Blais <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 11:24 AM Tuno Tunante <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> What I'm doing (I did the last yesterday) is like that:
>>>>>
>>>>> 2020-12-28 * "TD" "Sell Put MO 15 JAN 2021 Strike 40 @0.40" #Option #
>>>>> Put #MO #Sell
>>>>> Income:Options:TD -40.00 USD
>>>>> Expenses:Comission:TD 0.67 USD
>>>>> Assets:Account:TD 39.33 USD
>>>>> Assets:Options 4000.00 USD
>>>>> Liabilities:Opctions
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Where's the option?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do 6 or 7 per month. I use the Assets:Options and Liabilities:Options
>>>>> in order to have a complete view about the money I must reserve in case
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> assigned.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rule #1 of options trading: never get assigned! ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Before each put, I check that Liabilities:Options is less that the
>>>>> money in Assets:account:TD
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 6:18 AM Rajath Agasthya <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, I figured each option could be a new commodity. I don't do a
>>>>>> lot of option trades, so I'm okay with having more commodities until
>>>>>> something better turns up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The thing I'm not sure of is how to represent a trade where I'm
>>>>>> getting a credit (from selling a put or even a short sale of a stock). I
>>>>>> can't quite seem to figure out the matching posting for this transaction
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> I represent receiving credit as a posting into a cash account such as
>>>>>> Assets:US:Schwab:Cash. Any thoughts on how to do this or an example
>>>>>> you can share?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 5:04:37 PM UTC-8 [email protected]
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 5:47 PM Rajath Agasthya <
>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First of all, thanks to all the contributors (especially Martin)
>>>>>>>> for this wonderful tool! I'm new to double entry accounting and
>>>>>>>> Beancount,
>>>>>>>> but I'm blown away at how simple yet powerful this tool is, especially
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> combined with Fava.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been reading docs and I just started setting up my beancount
>>>>>>>> file. But as I setup my investment account, I'm a little bit lost as
>>>>>>>> to how
>>>>>>>> I should manage option trades. The trades where there is a net debit is
>>>>>>>> straightforward (I think), but I'm not sure how to enter trades like
>>>>>>>> selling a covered call or a put or a spread/multi-leg option that
>>>>>>>> result in
>>>>>>>> a credit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are there some examples I can refer to on how to manage option
>>>>>>>> trades? The docs mention options trading as a future topic to be
>>>>>>>> tackled
>>>>>>>> and I unfortunately couldn't find anything in the mailing list
>>>>>>>> (perhaps I
>>>>>>>> didn't search properly). So if anyone can point me in the right
>>>>>>>> direction,
>>>>>>>> I would really appreciate it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do options trading, but I only record simple options, never combos
>>>>>>> like this.
>>>>>>> - The option can be encoded in the symbol name. This makes a lot of
>>>>>>> new commodities to declare and put out of commissions. I haven't yet
>>>>>>> figured out what needs to be done to make this a bit nicer (e.g. allow
>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>> to define a commodity regex/pattern for these).
>>>>>>> - For stable asset types, I use leaf subaccounts; for options I
>>>>>>> don't (would be too many accounts, and it feels silly to create an
>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>> for a single position).
>>>>>>> - For options combinations/"strategies", if you have some way to
>>>>>>> trade all the legs instantly, you should be able to either (a) insert
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> the individual legs and their prices in a single transaction, or, if the
>>>>>>> product is already securitized by your broker, trade it like any other
>>>>>>> product (one leg with the derivative instrument).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope this helps, you do have to get a bit creative if you trade
>>>>>>> options, but, well, you trade options, so you will be able to figure out
>>>>>>> something :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Rajath
>>>>>>>>
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