@Chris, I once promised you a worked-out set of suggestions for Mac menus. I defaulted. Mea culpa.
Choosing keyboard shortcuts for a Mac app (with lots of functionality) is no small task, and I'm still prepared to do it. When I can find time. If it's not too late. But I suspect I'm in a minority of 1 over this. Added to which, I've fallen behind in the Mac stakes, and Apple themselves post-Steve Jobs don't seem to have so much respect for - or understanding of - the MacOS interface. So, to avoid cluttering the list with an intricate rant of sectarian interest, I'll document my gripes here: http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/IanClark/Mac-jqt and will now shut up. On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 2:30 PM, chris burke <[email protected]> wrote: > As regards the OSX shortcuts, we rely on OSX users telling us what they > want, or even coding what they want. I rarely use OSX and have no idea what > is appropriate. In fact when I do have to use OSX, the menus seem quite > inscrutable, no doubt to confuse the foreigner. > > Just pointing to guidelines is not going to be enough, particularly if they > change frequently. What specific changes do you recommend in the menu > structure for OSX? > >> Window > Throw Tab (whatever that means) > > This menu opens the second edit window, and moves the current tab over to > it. "throw" as opposed to "move" since it is not simply rearranging the > tabs on the current edit window. > > Alternatively use Window|Other Window to open up a second edit window. > > > On 7 August 2015 at 20:17, Ian Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > >> @Chris - I did qualify this with "at least to me" -- to imply that >> this was a subjective judgement. >> >> I didn't attempt an objective analysis. (Which I know is what you'll >> need to fix things.) I'd only just discovered the facility, and >> already had a workable method I had confidence in. When I found >> "Marc's limitation", plus the fact that that Window > Throw Tab >> (whatever that means) made the 2nd window reappear after I'd cancelled >> it, I lost confidence I knew what it was doing, and would do, and >> abandoned it as taking too long to investigate. >> >> The fact I've only just discovered this facility is itself a >> criticism. Though whether of jqt, or my approach to it, is one we >> might differ on. But that arises, I think, because much about the jqt >> menu structure is quirky, from my pov as a Mac user. But that's not >> just down to me: it violates Mac guidelines on important points. >> >> I've started to collect these points, and match them against published >> guidelines, but this is proving to be a big job, and not one I can >> complete in a week because I'm busy and for now I'm having to resort >> to workarounds (read: "muddling through"). >> >> I used to know the relevant guidelines well, but Apple has revised >> them many times (and recently changed all the links). Which makes it >> hard for me to check my memory against what's on developer.apple.com >> here-and-now. But for now just let me draw your attention to: >> >> OS X Human Interface Guidelines: Keyboard Shortcuts >> >> https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/mac/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/Keyboard.html >> >> A Menu Item Names a Command or Action >> >> https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/mac/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/MenuNaming.html >> >> (Note the word "prerelease" in the links - but my search didn't come >> up with anything older.) >> >> On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 2:22 AM, chris burke <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> But the two windows interact in an unpredictable (& unhelpful) way. At >> least, >> > to me >> > >> > Can you be more explicit, please? The only problem I am aware of is one >> > that Marc has only just pointed out - that opening a project in one Edit >> > window also opens it in the other. I'm pretty sure this is a bug as I >> > remember setting up code for separate projects. Otherwise, the two Edit >> > windows should work properly, and I myself frequently use them. >> > >> > On 7 August 2015 at 18:04, Ian Clark <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> Thanks @Marc. >> >> >> >> I hadn't read your post before I came to write mine. Then, just now, >> >> trying to discover the whereabouts of ⌘M in the menus (it isn't there, >> >> in contravention of longstanding Apple HF conventions) I discovered: >> >> Window > Other Window ⇧⌘M >> >> which opens a second edit window. >> >> >> >> But the two windows interact in an unpredictable (& unhelpful) way. At >> >> least, to me. So for now I'll stick to my twin-apps method. I used it >> >> a lot with J602 for running coprocesses (as they used to be called in >> >> my day). >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 6:48 PM, Marc Simpson <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 11:07 PM, Ian Clark <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> This lets me run two independent copies of jqt - albeit using the >> same >> >> >> config files etc. They don't seem to tread on each others' toes. I >> use >> >> >> this to see two separate copies of the Edit window so I can compare >> >> >> different projects side-by-side. Inability to do so with a single >> >> >> jqt.app running is a notable shortcoming. >> >> > >> >> > You can also use Window > Throw Tab then manually navigate to the alt. >> >> > project directory. (Selecting a new project from the menu will update >> >> > both Edit windows—not what you want.) >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > For information about J forums see >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
