Don, Speaking for myself I'm glad you posted. Please note that my comments were all aspirational. My idea of how things should be don't necessarily jive with how they will be (often that turns out to be a good thing ;-) ).
I get involved in the betas to try and mould the final product to match my ideas - or be convinced that other ideas are better. It hopefully saves me frustration after release. Whether it is the most productive use of my time is another issue ;-) Ric > From: Don Guinn > Sent: Friday, 3 September 2010 12:27 > > I wish to apologize for taking my frustrations of the day out on this > forum. Thank you, Sherlock, for you comments. I am glad to hear that it looks > like we will have something consistent across platforms as a final product. > So back to digging. > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Sherlock, Ric wrote: > > > I agree with Don that J6's simple, consistent, cross-platform GUI > > specification language (wd) is very compelling. > > > > I agree with Bjorn and Raul that hopefully, as the beta progresses, a > > toolset providing something similar to wd will become available for > J7 > > across all J front ends (JFEs). This will allow users to output > simple > > solutions quickly. The neat thing will be that the full power of the > > underlying technologies (Gtk, HTML5/CSS/Javascript) will also be > available > > to the user if they want to take their UI to the next level. > > > > One of my strong desires for J7 is that environment/toolsets be as > similar > > as possible between JFEs. From the user's perspective this will mean > they > > are able to use the same commands, no matter which JFE they are using > > (although the default output technology may be different). Utilities > like > > viewmat & plot are good examples. The J command should be as similar > as > > possible across JFEs, but on ide/jhs perhaps the plot is drawn using > canvas, > > whereas on ide/gtk it is drawn in a Gtk window. Another example is a > command > > like "open" which can be used to open a script for editing in J6 IDE, > as > > well as in ide/gtk. Ideally this will also be introduced to ide/jhs. > > > > The more the base experience in these J7 JFEs differ, the more we > risk > > further fragmenting our small community. > > > > > > > From: Björn Helgason > > > Sent: Friday, 3 September 2010 08:03 > > > > > > When you create forms in J6 you give some instructions and then J > > > generates code for you. > > > > > > I guess you will have tools to generate JS code for you after a few > > > versions. > > > > > > There are already some demos that can use used to test out some gui > > > connections to J. > > > > > > The beauty of J has always been to allow you to write short code > and > > > having tools available that takes care of complex operations. > > > > > > The beta now is presented to users in a much earlier stage than > before > > > so much of the tools are not there yet. > > > > > > Helps are not out yet either. > > > > > > 2010/9/2 Don Guinn <[email protected]> > > > > > > > What worried me and prompted writing was Eric's message saying > that > > > > JavaScript was a good way to make J web aware. I agree; however, > you > > > can't > > > > just use JavaScript. In order to do the job you need HTML and all > the > > > other > > > > goodies to do the job. When I last did projects for customers > most of > > > my > > > > time was spent on the customer interface. Little time on the > actual > > > > application part. If the customer interface is JavaScript, then > what > > > is the > > > > advantage in using J? Writing in a more common language, though > may > > > take a > > > > little longer than in J saves little and sounds better when > selling. > > > The > > > > whole development process needs speeding up. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Raul Miller > <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Don Guinn <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > use. The wd interface, though restrictive, was portable and > not > > > hard to > > > > > > learn. I hope that the released J7 can retain some of this > > > ability for > > > > > one > > > > > > to concentrate on the problem at hand and not require large > > > amounts of > > > > > time > > > > > > and resources getting the presentation to the user right. > > > > > > > > > > A subset of wd should be doable, for jhs. > > > > > > > > > > That said, tracking the changes that are going on here, and > > > > > being productive with the beta system despite its current > > > > > omissions takes a fair amount of energy. > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I have only had a little bit of time to work with > > > > > jhs and am sticking with j6 until j7 gets closer to release > > > > > freeze. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Raul > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
