Apart from the sobering realities of the underlying messages, this sounds like a great story... ;-)

On Feb 15, 2009, at 11:11 PM, Mitchell Nussbaum wrote:

Most people are fairly reasonable and intelligent when they are sober.
When they've had a few drinks, their reason and intelligence starts to
diminish.  When they're roaring drunk... all bets are off.

Case in point--- a few years ago, we parked our car one Saturday night in the Lake Street Ramp. When we came back, we found a very drunk young man sitting in the car, with his key in his hand, trying to find the ignition.
We tried to persuade him that this wasn't his car, and that he should
take a cab home, but he insisted that it was his car, and that he was
fully capable of driving it home.  If we had been able to offer him a
personal breath-testing device, I don't think it would have made much of a difference; a guy who is too drunk to find the ignition (but convince that
he's OK) is not going to be persuaded by a mere breath-testing device.

I'm not opposed to those devices.  If bars had them, they might a
bartender persuade marginally-intoxicated people that they shouldn't be
driving.  But they won't do much for the serious drunks who cause the
worst tragedies.

Eric Westhagen wrote:
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On the same subject:<br>
<br>
I have carped for the longest time about the lack of "easy
availability" to personal breath testing devices marketed and given
away.&nbsp; Possibly MAD should spend their money in doing that? &nbsp;
People are
going to socialize with friends and they are going to public places to
drink.&nbsp; Most people are intelligent and will wait until they are
"legally in control" if they only knew when that was. &nbsp; The few who with mental problems must face the stiff laws we have now.&nbsp; But what percent of the population are they.&nbsp; We have stiff laws.&nbsp; But
yet
ordinary people are picked up all the time who would just as soon wait another half hour if they knew their breath score.&nbsp; These testers are dirt cheap, both in devices and one shot tests.&nbsp; They are all over
the
internet if one is aware.&nbsp; Why should ordinary people take risks and subject their lives to the trauma of court, huge fines, and worse.<br>
<br>
<br>
Again since greed is so popular a topic.&nbsp; The tavern and restaurant
owners don't want people just sitting around and certainly the
municipalities have most to gain with these huge fines.&nbsp; In fact if
there were absolute zero as you suggest, the municipalities would be
against that as there would be no question of the breath limit.&nbsp; So,
I
put this out to MAD.&nbsp; Just why don't you promote personal breath
testers???<br>
<br>
Eric<br>
Matthew Berigan wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:[email protected]"
type="cite">
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 <p>Folks,</p>
 <p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>This may be somewhat tangential to this list's&nbsp;bike focus but
I'm
always amazed at how it seems so difficult to enact effective controls
for OWI here and don't know how to start talk about a potential
solution to the problem. Last July I was in Brazil when they did a
federal-level change that they called "tolerancia zero." I swear that
almost overnight things changed and the news reports brought data about drastic reductions in accidents. I didn't see a lot of people wringing
their hands over "rights" lost or the use of blitz road-checks. In
fact, most everybody thinks it is pretty cool. Taxi cab drivers love it
as their business has boomed.</p>
 <p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>I've had my close calls with OWI drivers. It scares me when I'm on
a bike, when I'm in a car and when I'm on foot.</p>
 <p>&nbsp;</p>
 <p>Oh - I'm not against drinking.</p>
 <p>&nbsp;</p>
 <p>Here a blurb on Brazil's "Zero Tolerance:"</p>
 <p>&nbsp;</p>
 <h1>Zero Tolerance for Drinking and Driving in Brazil</h1>
 <div class="date">Monday July 21, 2008</div>
 <div class="entry">
 <p>Brazil has a new <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://gobrazil.about.com/od/gettingaroundbrazil/a/ drylaw.htm"><font color="#0000ff">zero tolerance law for drinking and driving</font></ a>, valid all over the national territory. The law, which came into effect last June 19, has spurred the debate about the dangers of driving under the influence. Studies which informed Law 11.705, commonly referred to
as <i>Lei Seca</i>, or Dry Law, conclude that there is no risk-free
limit for blood alcohol content (BAC) in drivers.</p>
<p>The previous BAC to configure a DUI in Brazil was .06. The Dry Law
goes beyond tackling drunk driving to crack down on <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://alcoholism.about.com/od/dui/a/impaired.htm";><font
color="#0000ff">impaired driving</font></a>. </p>
 <p>However, a great number of Brazilians feel that there is still
more to be done. According to a <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.omid.mg.gov.br/pesquisas/I_Levantamento_Padroes_Consumo_Alcool_Populacao_Brasileira.doc "><font
color="#0000ff">national survey about alcohol consumption in
Brazil</font></a>,
the heaviest drinkers in the country are people between 18 and 24 years of age. The legal drinking age in Brazil is 18, but the consumption of alcohol is growing among younger people, aided by a lax enforcement of
laws against the sale of alcoholic beverages to minors.</p>
 <p>From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://alcoholism.about.com/b/2008/07/22/brazil-adopts-zero-tolerance-dui-policy.htm ">http://alcoholism.about.com/b/2008/07/22/brazil-adopts-zero-tolerance-dui-policy.htm </a></p>
 <p>&nbsp;</p>
 <p>&nbsp;</p>
 <p>&nbsp;</p>
 <p><strong><font size="5">See larger article</font></strong> with
some stats on drop in accidental death rate drop at <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=43317";>http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=43317 </a></p>
 </div>
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