Good grief! Don't start alibiing the car driver's bad behavior. The bus was already moving forward off the GREEN light. The bicyclist was not a young stud. He was 57! Plus there is an ALL RED phase before the light turns green.
*********************** > Well, my take on the video was that the biker started out very quickly - > granted, after the light turned green - and didn't check to his left. If I > were that biker, I would (I like to think, anyway) have recognized that I was > hidden by the bus; and looked to the left as I emerged from behind the > bus--even though I **should** have been able to assume it was safe. That's > my point, and my opinion. > > I ride pretty much every day, in all kinds of weather and have been riding > bikes in urban settings (including 6 years in NY City) for 40 years. As an > old fart, I feel a lot more vulnerable than I used to, and I try to ride defensively. > > Harry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: India Rose Viola <[email protected]> > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009 1:54 pm > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Comment on the biker hit by legislator who ran the > red light incident > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > > > > After seeing the video taken of the incident, I don't quite get what > > we are talking about here. > > > > If the cyclist had jumped the gun on the light, or failed to yield to > > a car running a light that was changing or had just changed to red, I > > would agree with what Harry is asserting. It doesn't make sense to > > bike out in front of moving traffic simply because the law says you > > can. Of course it is better to be safe than be right (as in correct). > > But if you are biking across an intersection well after the light has > > turned red for cross traffic, there is no way to anticipate a driver > > so egregiously running the red light. If as cyclists we were to do > > this, we wouldn't ever get anywhere- as we would be trying to > > anticipate any car at any point crossing through an intersection no > > matter what the traffic signal indicated. The cyclist in question was > > hit by a distracted driver who not only broke the rule (running a red > > light), but did so in a very unpredictable way (long after the light > > had turned red), and this had harmful consequences. If the cyclist > > had chosen to sit at the ro > > adside instead of proceeding toward his destination it is true that he > > wouldn't have gotten hit. But I think that is like saying that if you > > don't ride a bike you can't get hit on a bike. This wasn't a case of > > a cyclist asserting their rights; it was a case of a cyclist biking > > across an intersection in order to get to the other side. Riding > > defensively makes sense. Waiting an interminable amount of time at a > > green light to see if a car might come blowing through a stop light is > > utter nonsense. > > > > Obviously this is my opinion and not fact. > > > > -india > > *********************** > > India Viola > > UW-Madison > > Stretton Lab > > 115 Zoology Research Bldg. > > 1117 W. Johnson St. > > Madison, WI 53706 > > 608.262.3336 > > *********************** > > > > "How can we learn from our mistakes if we don't first acknowledge > > them?" -Anonymous > > > > "We exist in the bacterial world, not bacteria in ours" -Stuart Levy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: HARRY W READ <[email protected]> > > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009 1:28 pm > > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Comment on the biker hit by legislator who ran > > the red light incident > > To: [email protected] > > Cc: [email protected] > > > > > Matt, all I was trying to point out is that the cyclist should have > > > > > been aware of his situation. It's true, I don't know if the biker > > was > > > thinking "I'm going to assert my rights", but the discussion up to > > > this point has focused solely on the driver's behavior. My > > statement, > > > "it's not worth being right if it costs you serious injury" is to > > > provide a counterpoint to the tendency of this forum to focus on > > > cyclists' rights. That statement applies to defensive driving as > > well > > > and there have been ad campaigns that made that very point ("...he > > was > > > in the right; dead right."). > > > > > > I think one purpose of Bikies to improve biker safety; I'm all for > > > bikers asserting their rights, but I think we should do so judiciously. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Matt Logan <[email protected]> > > > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009 9:42 am > > > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Comment on the biker hit by legislator who ran > > > > > the red light incident > > > To: Harry Read <[email protected]> > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > The "it's not worth being right" argument is a prime example of how > > > > car-culture orthodoxy distorts discussions about transportation. > > Unless > > > > there is hard evidence that the bicyclist abandoned all defensive > > > > bicycling in an effort to assert his rights it is inappropriate to > > make > > > > such a suggestion. > > > > > > > > We don't suggest that motorists are asserting their rights to > > > > unencumbered travel when they are involved in a speeding-related crash. > > > > We don't suggest that motorists are asserting their right to drive > > drunk > > > > in a DUI-related crash. Why should we assume a bicyclist who > > makes > > > a > > > > mistake is asserting their rights? > > > > > > > > We should just call it like it is in situations like this and > > point > > > out > > > > that everyone needs to be aware that large vehicles block > > > sight-lines > > > > at > > > > intersections, and to operate their vehicles accordingly. > > > > > > > > On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 10:52 -0500, Harry Read wrote: > > > > > Watching the bus video of the biker hit by the legislator, my > > wife > > > > > > > > commented that the biker was hidden from the driver's view by > > the > > > > > > > bus - > > > > > the driver may have calculated that the bus would not be fast > > off > > > > > > > the > > > > > mark. This is not to excuse the driver in any way, I just want > > to > > > > > > > offer > > > > > it as a defensive biking tip. I'm sure this occurred to many of > > > > > > you, > > > > > but I thought worth saying. It's not worth being in the right if > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > costs you serious injury, or worse. > > > > > > > > > > - Harry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Bikies mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Bikies mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Bikies mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
