Like a lot of well-engineered things, roundabouts work only as well as the people who use them.
On my first use of the UW-Walnut Street roundabout, I was in the roundabout approaching the Observatory arm when a westbound vehicle careening down Observatory failed to yield and blithely cut me off. Only good brakes on my bike prevented serious injury or death. I am unimpressed with roundabouts because their safe use requires far more reliance on good mv driver behavior than stop lights. I rarely go that way any more. Traffic islands, on the other hand, are great. We have several on the near West side that provide kids walking to school with a safe place to regroup after crossing one lane, on Farley, for example, while waiting for an opening in traffic to cross the other lane. On a bike, as you approach the island you check back for traffic, signal a move to the left and take the center of the whole, narrowed lane when it's safe. Car drivers do slow down and wait. Those spaces are too narrow for both a car and bike to squeeze through safely, and I don't believe the ones on Farley were intended for double occupancy. Jeff Schimpff Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources Madison, WI 608-267-7853 "Bus, Bike, Carpool to Work for Clean Air for Kids" -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of India Rose Viola Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:59 PM To: Michael Rewey Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Bikies] (Fwd) Re: About Roundabouts Mike, Consider me schooled. I look forward to trying out these new-fangled roundabouts! -India ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Rewey <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:57 pm Subject: (Fwd) Re: About Roundabouts To: [email protected] > Hi India. One more lesson.... > > What you had out east was rotaries. For the most part they sucked and > still do. What is being built now are "modern" roundabouts They are > well engineered and work very well. > Traffic signals are actually less efficient. For starters there is > far less user delay on roundabouts (energy savings). No cost of > maintaining signals. > Function during power > failures. Less frequent and severe crashes. Higher traffic capacity > than most signalized > intersections. I have biked on modern roundabouts in Madison, Mount > Horeb, Florida, Denmark and Ireland to name a few. I love them. Very > easy to traverse. > > The rotaries out east are NOT roundabouts. > > call... > > Mike > 698-6673 > > > ------- Forwarded message follows ------- > Date sent: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:34:20 -0500 > From: India Rose Viola <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: About Roundabouts > To: Michael Rewey <[email protected]> > Copies to: [email protected] > Priority: normal > > Mike, > > You are correct. I was referring to the circular traffic islands that > look suspiciously like roundabouts, and so I casually wrote > "roundabouts", because noone seems to know how to get around them. > > Roundabouts are another topic for discussion. Growing up on the east > coast I saw roundabouts being replaced with newer, more efficient > technology- traffic signals. Roundabouts (or rotaries, as we call > them in Boston) are ok in some large intersections for cars only, or > in some relatively quiet intersections in lieu of the 4-way stop (yet > another topic for discussion)- but having bikes and cars in a busy > roundabout is about as pleasant as biking on the interstate. Not very > fun. > > That's my 2 cents. Thanks for the clarification. To sum up my > opinions: Traffic islands suck. Roundabouts have their place, and > biking on the interstate is both illegal (in most places) and > unpleasant. > > -India > > *********************** > India Viola > UW-Madison > Stretton Lab > 115 Zoology Research Bldg. > 1117 W. Johnson St. > Madison, WI 53706 > 608.262.3336 > *********************** > > "How can we learn from our mistakes if we don't first acknowledge > them?" -Anonymous > > "We exist in the bacterial world, not bacteria in ours" -Stuart Levy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Rewey <[email protected]> > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:22 pm > Subject: (Fwd) Re: [Bikies] Sharrows, parked cars, and roundabouts- Oh > To: [email protected] > > > > Hi India. > > > > I think you might have the wrong concept/definition of roundabouts. > > > > > > > Those little circles on neighborhood streets are just that - traffic > > circles. They are supposed to "calm" traffic. I do like them > > better than the traffic calming islands. That is where I really get > > squeezed. On the Board of Public Works I have been voting > > consistently against the islands unless there is ample room for a > > car and a bike side-by-side. I prefer speed humps, which have no > > impact on bikes since they are designed for 25 mph. > > > > Roundabouts are used on busier streets in lieu of traffic signals. > > That means we as bikes only have to make right turns. No merging > > left in heavy traffic. One-lane roundabouts are great. The > > two-laners are also good - but not great. The average speed on a > > well designed roundabout is 15 mph and no more than 20. About what > > a commute biker does. > > > > I agree with you on parked cars - they make me nervous. > > > > Mike > > 698-6673 > > > > ------- Forwarded message follows ------- > > Date sent: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 10:38:11 -0500 > > From: India Rose Viola <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Priority: normal > > Copies to: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Sharrows, parked cars, and > > roundabouts- Oh my! > > > > [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] > > > > "I think as a community, we must accept that bikes and cars can't > > share the same space safely with the current mindset." > > > > I have to say that I disagree. I bike safely around town at least 5 > > days a week, 11 months a year. I don't think that as an > > experienced, defensive yet assertive cyclist that I'm at any more > > risk than if I were driving a car or walking. That isn't to say > > that more isn't needed in bicyclist and driver education on sharing > > the road and keeping everyone safe. > > > > And having parked cars on the streets that I bike on sucks as far as > > I'm concerned. I feel much more threatened by people getting in and > > out of their cars and driving into and out of parking spaces than I > > do by steady vehicle traffic. I would rather bike on streets > > without on-street parking if I could. I know some folks argue that > > on-street parking has a traffic calming effect, but I find that most > > traffic calming is wishful thinking. Never seen a roundabout calm > > anyone. All a roundabout does is create less space for me and a car > > to be in the street together. Grrrr.... don't get me started :) > > > > -India > > > > *********************** > > India Viola > > UW-Madison > > Stretton Lab > > 115 Zoology Research Bldg. > > 1117 W. Johnson St. > > Madison, WI 53706 > > 608.262.3336 > > *********************** > > > > "How can we learn from our mistakes if we don't first acknowledge > > them?" -Anonymous > > > > "We exist in the bacterial world, not bacteria in ours" -Stuart Levy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Waugh <[email protected]> > > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:09 am > > Subject: [Bikies] Sharrows > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Thanks Kevin for the Seattle sharrows link. > > > I'm still a little uneasy about their use on even low to > > > moderately busy streets. I think as a community, we must accept > > > that bikes and cars can't share the same space safely with the > > > current mindset. We made that decision about pedestrians and gave > > > them their own space. > > > > > Howerver, I like the concept of sharrows as it makes sense to > > > show the unexperienced bicyclists where they should be in the lane > > > which would protect them from car doors and make them more > > > predictable for motorists. And it advertises to motorists that > > > they should share and be on the lookout for bikes present. But I > > > think they could also be dangerous in the sense that we will > > > always have a fairly significant percentage of motorists not > > > paying attention (cell phones) and one small accident has big > > > consequences for bikers. Perhaps what we should do is put bikes on > > > sidewalks and put pedestrians out in the sharrow because they > > > could walk closer to parked cars. While this makes sense in a > > > way, it would seem absurdly dangerous to your average Madisonian. > > > > Yet the damage inflicted with hitting a pedestrian is on scale > > > with hitting a bicyclist. Maybe we could have a special helmet > > > for walking around town! > > > > > > I'm hoping that if we get a bike boulevard on East Mifflin, we get > > > parking on both sides the entire length for residents as a > > > tradeoff to restricted street access, and sharrows in the middle > > > of the lane. > > > Then I will feel that we will have at least one safe route > > > west > > > from my neighborhood. > > > > > > David Waugh > > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
