Mike, can you share more about your thoughts of the E. Wilson bike issues with a Hancock extension? I'm not tracking on them, but would like to understand. Thanks.
On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 11:49 AM Michael Rewey <[email protected]> wrote: > The Hancock extension creates multiple other problems, such as biking on > East Wilson. Be careful what you ask for. > > Simple solution - do not allow *motor* vehicles to exit at the eastern > driveway next to the building. The western driveway serves the same > movement onto Willy plus more. It can be done now. > > Mike Rewey > > ********************************************************** > On 28 Aug 2015 at 16:19, Grant Foster wrote: > > From: *Grant Foster <[email protected] > <[email protected]>>* > Date sent: *Fri, 28 Aug 2015 16:19:51 +0000* > To: *"STRAWSER, Charles" > <[email protected] <[email protected]>>, tim wong > <[email protected] <[email protected]>>,* > *Harald Kliems <[email protected] > <[email protected]>>* > Copies to: *"[email protected] > <[email protected]>" <[email protected] > <[email protected]>>* > Subject: *Re: [Bikies] Machinery Row intersection* > > > Agreed that this intersection isn't really going to be fixed by any kind > of signage. I think the Hancock extension is preferable to the current > state, but would also strongly support burying the cars. The confusing path > signage is part of the same conversation that has been ongoing about > expectations for bike users at path/street crossings/crosswalks. I think TE > is attempting to keep cyclists safe with their use of yield and stop signs > more than trying to keep cross traffic flowing. I appreciate the attempt, > but think it's an inappropriate and ineffective approach. With the > funkiness that exists today at that corner, I'd appreciate a good caution > sign that helps me know there's a blind driveway (technically, I think, > actually part of Blair St.) around the corner and to pay special attention > for cars crossing the path in both directions-- but that shouldn't be a > Yield sign. > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 12:26 PM STRAWSER, Charles < > *[email protected]* <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Tim said “presumably cars turning in front of traffic from eastbound > Williamson/Wilson or southbound Blair have the right of way over everyone > else. You're right, there is no yield sign for eastbound bicyclists. > There is some contention about that yield sign within the Traffic > Engineering Division, with some advocating its removal. It isn't clear why > cars turning into the Machinery Row complex should have priority over > anyone.” > > > > I don’t think cars (or bikes) turning from eastbound East > Wilson/Williamson into Machinery Row do have the right of way there, Tim. > > The presumption is that cars (or bikes) crossing a sidewalk from the > street have to yield to traffic (peds and bikes, presuming bikes are > allowed on the sidewalk in question) along the sidewalk they’re crossing. > > And I don’t see how that’s not a sidewalk there. > > > > So, to summarize: > > Cars (and bikes) exiting Machinery Row face a stop sign. > > Cars (and bikes) entering Machinery Row from eastbound E Wilson/Williamson > must yield to traffic on the sidewalk. > > > > So who exactly are westbound cyclists on the path (sidewalk) supposed to > yield to? > > I would not be surprised that there’s some contention within Traffic > Engineering about that Yield sign. I don’t see how it’s enforceable given > the above. > > Nor do I see how a citation written for failure to yield to it would be > defensible. > > > > I think what we can all agree on is that the intersection is still far > from ideal. Moving the access to Machinery Row from that location to some > other one would be an improvement, but if you actually created the access > at Hancock, the plans I saw at SCTOD would have essentially eliminated Law > Park between John Nolen and the Lake at John Nolen’s (proposed) > intersection with Hancock. > > > > A much better solution in the long term would be eliminating almost all > the conflicts, while simultaneously creating a HUGE amenity (for everyone): > > *http://www.1kfriends.org/madison-create-millennium-park/* > <http://www.1kfriends.org/madison-create-millennium-park/> > > > > There was much discussion of the costs of that: > > *http://www.1kfriends.org/downsides-decking-john-nolen-drive/* > <http://www.1kfriends.org/downsides-decking-john-nolen-drive/> > > > > but also much discussion about the benefits: > > *http://www.1kfriends.org/benefits-decking-john-nolen-drive/* > <http://www.1kfriends.org/benefits-decking-john-nolen-drive/> > > > > > > Chuck Strawser > > Pedestrian & Bicycle Transportation Planner > > Commuter Solutions > > UW-Madison Transportation Services > > > > Visit our University Bicycle Resource Center at Helen C White: > *http://transportation.wisc.edu/transportation/bike_annex.aspx* > <http://transportation.wisc.edu/transportation/bike_annex.aspx> > > > > How are we doing? Take our customer satisfaction survey at > *https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CommSol_CSSurvey* > <https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CommSol_CSSurvey> > > > > *From:* Bikies [mailto: *[email protected]* > <[email protected]> ] *On Behalf Of* tim wong > *Sent:* Thursday, August 27, 2015 1:14 AM > *To:* Harald Kliems > *Cc:* *[email protected]* <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [Bikies] Machinery Row intersection > > > > > The yield sign seems totally pointless. Since stop signs trump yield > signs, bikes on the bike path would seem to have the right of way over cars > exiting Machinery Row, but presumably cars turning in front of traffic from > eastbound Williamson/Wilson or southbound Blair have the right of way over > everyone else. You're right, there is no yield sign for eastbound > bicyclists. There is some contention about that yield sign within the > Traffic Engineering Division, with some advocating its removal. It isn't > clear why cars turning into the Machinery Row complex should have priority > over anyone. > > > > What this discussion points out once again is that the car road adjacent > to the Machinery Row building needs to be closed, with access to that area, > as proposed during the SCTOD discussions at an extension of Hancock St. > Having almost been run over by a cellphone yakking idiot looking left (but > not right, the direction from which I was coming) and seen another person > almost run over as well, this intersection is a crash waiting to happen. > The yield sign NEEDS to be removed, as it would make a bike hit by a car > coming out of nowhere going into the Machinery Row exit at fault, which is > simply absurd. > > > > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Harald Kliems < *[email protected]* > <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Always a fun topic... Today somebodyon Reddit posted about a yield sign > for cyclists at the intersection of the Machinery Row parking lot exit and > the Cap City Trail. > > > > > *https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/3igzpy/cyclists_near_machinery_row_that_yield_sign_is/* > <https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/3igzpy/cyclists_near_machinery_row_that_yield_sign_is/> > > > > A lot of people point out that they have never ever noticed that yield > sign, and it appears (someone posted a link to Google Street View) that > there is only one sign, for cyclists coming from Willy St. The parking lot > exit has a stop sign, and there are no signs whatsoever on the trail for > cyclists coming from Monona Terrace. I will readily admit that I have never > noticed that yield sign either and have often been annoyed at drivers > cutting me off when exiting the parking lot. Maybe it has been discussed > here previously, but this seems like a horribly confusing and ambiguous > intersection design that makes it nigh impossible to tell who has the right > of way. Can anyone confirm that there is indeed only one yield sign? And > any theories why it was put there/why there isn't one in the other > direction? > > > > Harald. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > *[email protected]* <[email protected]> > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > > > -- > "If we continue to consume the world until there's no more to consume, > then there's going to come a day, sure as hell, when our children or their > children or their children's children are going to look back on us--on you > and me--and say to themselves, 'My God, what kind of monsters were these > people?'" > > --Daniel Quinn > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > *[email protected]* <[email protected]> > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org >
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