From: http://dorothyk.net/BeltlineStudy/2015-10-14PACPresentation.pdf
It appears that the only "projected" benefit of going with Balanced package three, versus sticking with Preserve w/Mode Enhancements is the decreases in crashes on the beltline. I quote "projected" because within the next 25 years, self-driving car technology is going to virtually eliminate crashes on highways. Unfortunately, WISDOT does not consider this in their methodology. They also fail to consider how that same technology will allow existing roadways to carry up to twice the volume of automobiles. I know this because I have asked WISDOT staff on numerous occasions to provide their analysis of self-driving car technology on projects like the beltline. For the gluttons for punishment like me, it is informative to go back to the Nov 2, 2011 meeting of the Transportation Projects committee where this study was initiated. At that meeting, the only stated goal (by Governor Walker) was to expand highways in order to "send a message to businesses". WISDOT presenter Dr. Mark Wolfgram referred to the projects as "expansions". It is also interesting to note that the legislature (SB360/AB454) is set to remove the congestion and safety thresholds for enumerating highway projects from administrative code, and that the Walker administration has effectively been ignoring them anyway for years. Nov 2, 2011 Meeting Minutes (doc page 16) http://www.forwardlookout.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/RECORDS-PART-1.pdf It is also interesting to note that the recent study on highway spending benefits, while touted by the TDA as demonstrating general benefits to the state's economy, utilized a partial equilibrium model which fails to capture enough information to warrant using the phrase "generally benefits the economy". http://www.forwardlookout.com/2015/10/tda-economic-benefit-claims-are-not-to -be-interpreted-literally/24003 I have been filing open records requests to obtain this information at the state level with members of both major political parties. While both are likely to state that highway spending grows the economy, when pressed for the backing data, they generally have no information in their office. Here is an example where I actually got a response, although as you will read, it was misleading: http://www.forwardlookout.com/2015/07/so-far-state-officials-cant-prove-road s-grow-economy/23601 So the bottom line is we are building highways like the beltline "to grow the economy", but nobody who says that can actually back up that position. And all the while the state is neglecting to consider the impact of future technology on safety and capacity issues, which are the other factors outlined in the Beltline Study goals. What we need is more of the right kind of information so people like Dorothy K can make an informed decision, rather than being overwhelmed with the wrong information. From: Bikies [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dorothy Krause via Bikies Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 5:51 AM To: Bikies Subject: Re: [Bikies] Belt line Re: Bikies Digest, Vol 87, Issue 14 They do make you do it the hard way. There is always a workaround tho. and here it is. These are the files I was trying to copy to the group. They are from meetings (as dated) in Sept and Oct last year, along with the timeline graphic. They are the result of the next step beyond the info Grant referenced earlier. They are the most recent minutes and presentations of the future beltline study group. The presentations may need some explanation on various slides, but you can get the gist of what the DOT, Strand, and the group has been looking at for the future. I can probably dredge up more to add in time, but there is a lot here. anyone that wants more is truly a glutton for punishment, or an information junkie. My head spins. http://dorothyk.net/BeltlineStudy/WorkplanGraphic2015-09-16.pdf http://dorothyk.net/BeltlineStudy/2015-09-14PACPresentation.pdf http://dorothyk.net/BeltlineStudy/2015-09-14BeltlinePEL-PACMeetingMinutes.pd f http://dorothyk.net/BeltlineStudy/2015-10-14PACPresentation.pdf http://dorothyk.net/BeltlineStudy/2015-10-14BeltlinePEL-PACMeetingMinutesFIN AL.pdf Dorothy Krause Dane County Board of Supervisors Fitchburg Common Council [email protected] 608-271-7532 Follow me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dorothy.krause Progressive - where idealism meets reality From: Bikies [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Hauda via Bikies Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 12:44 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Bikies] Belt line Re: Bikies Digest, Vol 87, Issue 14 I have to admit engineering the Beltline is not one of my areas of expertise. I do bicycle stuff. In fact, the way I deal with the Beltline is to avoid it at all costs. :-P I suppose we could double-deck it to handle the inevitable increase in traffic volume, but that is a question for the WisDOT engineers in the future. I do remain convinced, however, that a southern bypass will eventually emerge. On 1/30/2016 11:21 PM, Grant Foster via Bikies wrote: Not sure what info you were looking to share, Dorothy, but there's a lot that can be accessed here <http://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/madisonbeltline/reports .aspx> . Bill, you should review this report <http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/sw/madisonbeltline/s2. pdf> specifically as it makes it incredibly clear that the majority of beltline traffic is coming from and going to destinations along the beltline and into the urban core and that a southern "connector" would have little impact on relieving traffic from the beltline as you suggest. On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 6:39 PM Dorothy Krause via Bikies <[email protected]> wrote: This morning, I tried to send info on the beltline study that is currently underway, with alternatives that have been discussed. I got a note back saying it's stuck in moderator limbo because the attachments (presentation materials and minutes) were too large. If someone could release that, it might add to the conversation. Dorothy Krause Dane County Board of Supervisors Fitchburg Common Council [email protected] 608-271-7532 Follow me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dorothy.krause Progressive - where idealism meets reality -----Original Message----- From: Bikies [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Darryl Jordan via Bikies Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2016 6:33 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: [Bikies] Belt line Re: Bikies Digest, Vol 87, Issue 14 Having to use the beltline, increasing lanes or even mass transit is only going to partly solve what to do with excessive traffic during Madison's half hour. A key component of the traffic tie up is the need to use the road way at the same time. I propose incentives of staggered road way use. This may be hard to establish as everybody wants to be there yesterday. So, while we're on the topic of social transportation change, might as well adopt new ways of getting to work in a "timely" manner. Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 30, 2016, at 4:17 PM, via Bikies <[email protected]> wrote: > > Send Bikies mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Bikies digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Longest bike bridge in Wisconsin coming to Dane County in > 2017 | Local News | host.madison.com (William Hauda via Bikies) > 2. Re: Longest bike bridge in Wisconsin coming to Dane County in > 2017 | Local News | host.madison.com (Grant Foster via Bikies) > 3. Re: Longest bike bridge in Wisconsin coming to Dane County in > 2017 | Local News | host.madison.com (Matthew Logan via Bikies) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 15:52:58 -0600 > From: William Hauda via Bikies <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Longest bike bridge in Wisconsin coming to Dane > County in 2017 | Local News | host.madison.com > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed" > > So what is, Mike? You did a fantastic job as lead planner at WisDOT > for this area. You gave us bike facilities against tremendous odds. > How do we solve the problem of more and more cars and trucks in a > congested corridor like the Beltline? > >> On 1/30/2016 12:22 PM, Michael Rewey via Bikies wrote: >> Building a new highway is not a solution... >> >> Mike Rewey >> >> >> On 30 Jan 2016 at 3:10, William Hauda via Bikies wrote: >> >> /To:/ [email protected] >> /Date sent:/ Sat, 30 Jan 2016 03:10:39 -0600 >> /Subject:/ Re: [Bikies] Longest bike bridge in >> Wisconsin coming to Dane County >> in 2017 | Local News | host.madison.com >> /From:/ William Hauda via Bikies >> <[email protected]> >> /Send reply to:/ William Hauda <[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe> >> >> >> I would think this will take some cars off the Beltline by >> providing a more direct and safer bicycle commuter route between >> Madison, McFarland and Stoughton. Currently, bicycling between these >> communities can only be done under very challenging conditions, >> especially at the US 51/Beltline intersection. The eventual long-term >> solution to Beltline traffic congestion, however, will be >> construction of a connector between US 18/151 at Verona to I-39/90, >> which would eliminate the need for vehicular traffic heading >> east-west to go through Madison. There are all sorts of property >> owner, economic and environmental issues, but this will eventually >> happen to avoid making Madison a transportation choke point. >> >> On 1/29/2016 9:53 PM, Mike Neuman via Bikies wrote: >> I would hope that they are building this to relieve some of auto >> commuter traffic in the area. But it seems they're bent on adding >> more lanes to the beltine regardless. The should use this money to >> establish a bus system between Madison and the outlying communities >> instead. But of course that won't help keep the pockets of road and >> bridge builders full. >> >> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Robert F. Nagel via Bikies >> <[email protected]_ <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> _http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/longest-bike-bridge-in-wiscon >> sin-coming-to-dane-county-in/article_b9dd1f0d-e6ad-5a0e-bf0a-d424ff1e >> d71e.html#utm_source=host.madison.com&utm_campaign=%2Femail%2F&utm_me >> dium=email&utm_content=headline_ >> graphic >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikies mailing list >> [email protected]_ <mailto:[email protected]> >> _http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org_ >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikies mailing list >> [email protected]_ <mailto:[email protected]> >> _http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org_ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikies mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.danenet.org/private.cgi/bikies-danenet.org/attachments/2 > 0160130/a349cc3f/attachment-0001.htm> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was > scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: image/bmp > Size: 358 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > <http://lists.danenet.org/private.cgi/bikies-danenet.org/attachments/2 > 0160130/a349cc3f/attachment-0001.bin> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 21:59:31 +0000 > From: Grant Foster via Bikies <[email protected]> > To: William Hauda <[email protected]>, [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Longest bike bridge in Wisconsin coming to Dane > County in 2017 | Local News | host.madison.com > Message-ID: > > <CAApdrb+mhTj_wx9eyok7Nofd14hA+b1ig_Wf4Xg=Atw0Lxx=h...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > It seems pretty c!ear that the answer is alternatives to cars, not > more roads. Buses and bikes are good alternatives in the near term. > > You don't fight obesity by buying bigger pants. > > On Sat, Jan 30, 2016, 15:53 William Hauda via Bikies < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> So what is, Mike? You did a fantastic job as lead planner at WisDOT >> for this area. You gave us bike facilities against tremendous odds. >> How do we solve the problem of more and more cars and trucks in a >> congested corridor like the Beltline? >> >> >> On 1/30/2016 12:22 PM, Michael Rewey via Bikies wrote: >> >> Building a new highway is not a solution... >> >> Mike Rewey >> >> >> On 30 Jan 2016 at 3:10, William Hauda via Bikies wrote: >> >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Date sent:* Sat, 30 Jan 2016 03:10:39 -0600 >> *Subject:* Re: [Bikies] Longest bike bridge in >> Wisconsin coming to Dane County >> in 2017 | Local News | host.madison.com >> *From:* William Hauda via Bikies >> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> >> *Send reply to:* William Hauda <[email protected]> >> <[email protected]> >> >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >> <[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe> >> <[email protected]?subject=subscribe> >> >> >> I would think this will take some cars off the Beltline by >> providing a more direct and safer bicycle commuter route between >> Madison, McFarland and Stoughton. Currently, bicycling between these >> communities can only be done under very challenging conditions, >> especially at the US 51/Beltline intersection. The eventual long-term >> solution to Beltline traffic congestion, however, will be >> construction of a connector between US 18/151 at Verona to I-39/90, >> which would eliminate the need for vehicular traffic heading >> east-west to go through Madison. There are all sorts of property >> owner, economic and environmental issues, but this will eventually happen to avoid making Madison a transportation choke point. >> >> On 1/29/2016 9:53 PM, Mike Neuman via Bikies wrote: >> I would hope that they are building this to relieve some of auto >> commuter traffic in the area. But it seems they're bent on adding >> more lanes to the beltine regardless. The should use this money to >> establish a bus system between Madison and the outlying communities >> instead. But of course that won't help keep the pockets of road and bridge builders full. >> >> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Robert F. Nagel via Bikies < >> *[email protected]* <[email protected]>> wrote: >> *http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/longest-bike-bridge-in-wiscon >> sin-coming-to-dane-county-in/article_b9dd1f0d-e6ad-5a0e-bf0a-d424ff1e >> d71e.html#utm_source=host.madison.com&utm_campaign=%2Femail%2F&utm_me >> dium=email&utm_content=headline >> <http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/longest-bike-bridge-in-wiscon >> sin-coming-to-dane-county-in/article_b9dd1f0d-e6ad-5a0e-bf0a-d424ff1e >> d71e.html#utm_source=host.madison.com&utm_campaign=%2Femail%2F&utm_me >> dium=email&utm_content=headline>* >> <http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/longest-bike-bridge-in-wisconsin-com <http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/longest-bike-bridge-in-wisconsin-com ing-to-dane-county-in/article_b9dd1f0d-e6ad-5a0e-bf0a-d424ff1ed71e.html#utm_ source=host.madison.com&utm_campaign=%2Femail%2F&utm_medium=email&utm_conten t=headline> ing-to-dane-county-in/article_b9dd1f0d-e6ad-5a0e-bf0a-d424ff1ed71e.html#utm_ source=host.madison.com&utm_campaign=%2Femail%2F&utm_medium=email&utm_conten t=headline> [image: >> graphic] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikies mailing list >> *[email protected]* <[email protected]> >> *http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org* >> <http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikies mailing list >> *[email protected]* <[email protected]> >> *http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org* >> <http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikies mailing >> [email protected]http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bik >> ies-danenet.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikies mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.danenet.org/private.cgi/bikies-danenet.org/attachments/2 > 0160130/42695e6c/attachment-0001.htm> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was > scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: image/bmp > Size: 358 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > <http://lists.danenet.org/private.cgi/bikies-danenet.org/attachments/2 > 0160130/42695e6c/attachment-0002.bin> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was > scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: image/bmp > Size: 358 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > <http://lists.danenet.org/private.cgi/bikies-danenet.org/attachments/2 > 0160130/42695e6c/attachment-0003.bin> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 15:17:38 -0700 > From: Matthew Logan via Bikies <[email protected]> > To: "Bikies" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Longest bike bridge in Wisconsin coming to Dane > County in 2017 | Local News | host.madison.com > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > You are stuck in the way of thinking that says traffic levels are a > fixed value, and that we must build highways to accommodate that fixed > value. But traffic is more like a gas - it will expand to fill > whatever container we provide for it. > > This means if you take roads away, there will be less driving. If you > add more roads, there will be more driving. The trick, is to build > the roads (and bike paths, and ped facilities) in locations that > promote accessibility. > > > > From: Bikies [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > William Hauda via Bikies > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2016 2:53 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Longest bike bridge in Wisconsin coming to Dane > County in 2017 | Local News | host.madison.com > > > > So what is, Mike? You did a fantastic job as lead planner at WisDOT > for this area. You gave us bike facilities against tremendous odds. > How do we solve the problem of more and more cars and trucks in a > congested corridor like the Beltline? > > On 1/30/2016 12:22 PM, Michael Rewey via Bikies wrote: > > Building a new highway is not a solution... > > > > Mike Rewey > > > > > > On 30 Jan 2016 at 3:10, William Hauda via Bikies wrote: > > > > To: [email protected] > > Date sent: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 03:10:39 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Longest bike bridge in Wisconsin > coming to Dane County > > in 2017 | Local News | > host.madison.com > > From: William Hauda via Bikies > <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> > > Send reply to: William Hauda <mailto:[email protected]> > <[email protected]> > > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe> > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe> > > > > > > I would think this will take some cars off the Beltline by > providing a more direct and safer bicycle commuter route between > Madison, McFarland and Stoughton. Currently, bicycling between these > communities can only be done under very challenging conditions, > especially at the US 51/Beltline intersection. The eventual long-term > solution to Beltline traffic congestion, however, will be construction > of a connector between US 18/151 at Verona to I-39/90, which would > eliminate the need for vehicular traffic heading east-west to go > through Madison. There are all sorts of property owner, economic and > environmental issues, but this will eventually happen to avoid making Madison a transportation choke point. > > On 1/29/2016 9:53 PM, Mike Neuman via Bikies wrote: > > I would hope that they are building this to relieve some of auto > commuter traffic in the area. But it seems they're bent on adding more > lanes to the beltine regardless. The should use this money to > establish a bus system between Madison and the outlying communities > instead. But of course that won't help keep the pockets of road and bridge builders full. > > > > On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Robert F. Nagel via Bikies < > <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote: > > http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/longest-bike-bridge-in-wisconsi > n-comi > ng-to-dane-county-in/article_b9dd1f0d-e6ad-5a0e-bf0a-d424ff1ed71e.html > #utm_s > ource=host.madison.com > <http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/longest-bike-bridge-in-wiscons > in-com > ing-to-dane-county-in/article_b9dd1f0d-e6ad-5a0e-bf0a-d424ff1ed71e.htm > l#utm_ > source=host.madison.com&utm_campaign=%2Femail%2F&utm_medium=email&utm_ > conten t=headline> > &utm_campaign=%2Femail%2F&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headline > graphic > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] > <http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org> > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] > <http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org> > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.danenet.org/private.cgi/bikies-danenet.org/attachments/2 > 0160130/7427a771/attachment.htm> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was > scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: image/png > Size: 141 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > <http://lists.danenet.org/private.cgi/bikies-danenet.org/attachments/2 > 0160130/7427a771/attachment.png> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Bikies Digest, Vol 87, Issue 14 > ************************************** _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
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