Regarding incentives, privacy is itself an incentive. If your business suffers from being spied on (for example you're a casino or p2p exchange, and regulated exchanges keep banning your customers) then the cost of adopting payjoin is worth it. That's why I expect and hope that p2p exchanges will be one of the earlier adopters.
While researching for the Adoption page I was surprised to find that one exchange has already adopted PayJoin: a no-signup altcoin exchange called sideshift.ai On 18/01/2021 20:38, Lucas Ontivero wrote: > Hi > > Before all, thanks for the wiki page tracking the payjoin adoption, it is a > good idea. > > ----- > > Even when there is a reasonable economical incentive to use segwit > transactions to save fees a big percentage of the transactions are not > using segwit yet. In the case of payjoins the economic incentives are not > so big while the privacy benefits are not so clear for the payer as they > are for the global transactions graph as a whole. This means that payjoins > requires some level of altruist attitude from the payers. The payjoins UX > is also not good because I think most users are not familiar with bip21 > uris (users still request support because they pay a bech32 address in an > exchange and the exchange tells them that's not a valid bitcoin address). > All this is relative and subjective but in general terms I would say it is > more or less true for many people. > > Anyway, imagine wallets' developers agree on making payjoins payment by > default because it is the right thing to do (fight against surveillance to > spy on bitcoin users and improve bitcoin's fungibility). In that case it > should be completely transparent to the users and at not cost, it shouldn't > require the user to do anything different, it shouldn't be noticeable > slower, etc. In fact, users should have to know they are payjoining at all. > > The only way I see to achieve something like that is by moving to schemes > where wallets can communicate and interact. I should be able to know > something about you that allows me to select your name from my contact list > and select "Pay to Chris" and if my wallet knows how to find yours then it > can request a new address and pays, or generate a new one for you (probably > using a output descriptor you created to share with me). > > Sorry for the long semi-random rant. > > El vie, 15 ene 2021 a las 21:07, Chris Belcher via bitcoin-dev (< > [email protected]>) escribió: > >> PayJoin is an exciting bitcoin privacy technology which has the >> potential to damage the ability of blockchain surveillance to spy on >> bitcoin users and destroy bitcoin's fungibility. A protocol standard has >> already been defined and implemented by a couple of projects such as >> BTCPayServer, Wasabi Wallet, JoinMarket and BlueWallet. >> >> I've made a wiki page tracking adoption: >> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/PayJoin_adoption >> >> It is similar to the Bech32 adoption page. >> >> >> Recently a UK bitcoin exchange shut down due to new regulations, with >> the owner writing a very interesting and relevant blog post that I'll >> quote here: >> >>> you’re considered suspicious if you used a marketplace and not an >> exchange. Coinjoin counts as high risk. Gambling is high risk. As you >> use entities that are paranoid about keeping their coins clean and >> adhering to all the regulations, your risk scores will continue to >> increase and without you even knowing why, your deposits will become >> rejected, you may be asked to supply documents or lose the coins, your >> account may become suspended without you having any clue what you did >> wrong. And quite possibly you didn’t do anything wrong. But that won’t >> matter. >>> >>> The goal post, the risk score threshold will keep moving along this >> trend until the point where you will be afraid of using your personal >> wallet, donating to someone online, receiving bitcoins from anywhere >> except for regulated exchanges. At that point, crypto will be akin to a >> regular bank account. You won’t have a bitcoin wallet, you will have >> accounts to websites. >> >> https://blog.bitbargain.com/post/638504004285054976/goodbye >> >> If we want bitcoin to fulfill its dream of a permissionless money for >> the internet then we'll have to work on this. What can we do to increase >> adoption of PayJoin? >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> > _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing list [email protected] https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
