Hi,
I know BGT is no longer an option...Hence one of the reasons I've been
somewhat dormant on the programming side for three years trying to find
a decent language.
But yeah. Whatever I use, there's always something I don't understand,
or can't stand.
1. Python: Comprehensive enough language, but can't stand indentation,
and because it's interpreted that obviously makes it somewhat slower.
Not as slow as I've seen in some other languages...Hell, look at NVDA. I
must admit that's faster than I could ever imagine from an interpreted
language. Not to mention the fact that, though I have dreams of one day
being competent enough to make open-source apps, I can't ever see me
having the self-confidence to do that. Hacking in BGT is one thing,
trying to hack out code in other languages is a different thing
entirely. Since Python isn't designed for making executables, let alone
closed-source, that means installing more extra packages with the nasty
PIP, some of which try to manually build its contents with Visual C++ or
whatever other programming blah it needs. Also, using external libraries
or DLL's looks complicated, not that I particularly like using DLL's in
the first place!
2. BASIC: While I used to program in VB6, it left a very sour taste in
my mouth when it came to finding libraries. Such is also the case with
FreeBASIC, PowerBASIC and so on. PureBASIC looks promising, except for
its bizarre syntax. But if you want to use external libraries, once
again, you either have to use DLL's, or attempt to compile them yourself
with C or C++ and use statics.
3. C#, modern VB etc: I have always had an aversion to .NET-based
platforms. The .NET framework, once again, is so bulky and bloated. Of
course, more often than not we don't need to worry about installation
any more, as it comes prepackaged with Windows, but still. Apart from
which, yet again, without extra tools, it is so easy to decompile and
obtain the original sources.
4. AutoIt, BGT etc: Well we all know about antivirus tricks, not to
mention BGT's limitations and GC failures, and AutoIt's excessive
slowness. Ironically enough, these are by far the most simple
development environments I've ever worked with. Again though, external
libraries? Because they're interpreted, it's unfortunately the dreaded DLL.
5. C and C++: This seems to be the way of most libraries. You want some
extra functionality, you need to use libraries, and that seems to be a
common stumbling block among all programming languages. The only
difference is, if it isn't C or C++, you have an additional layer of
abstraction to have to work with to build it and then make a wrapper for
that language, either Python or C# or whatever.
Of course, that leads me to believe that the best language to work with
would be the source of all sources...C and C++. Of course, the advantage
there, is that, because of their low-leveledness and compiled rather
than interpreted, you can really optimise it if you know how. But then
you're looking at possibly the hardest languages in existence, where you
have to learn about managing memory, using external debuggers which
obviously means knowing how to make different build configurations. Then
of course there's all this cross-platform blah, unless you want to use
Visual C++ which also seems to be a high loaded bloat, at least in my
experience...I've known other people use it, how I have no idea. But still.
I've spent pretty much the past three years experimenting with trial and
error with C and C++, and if this tells you anything, I'm still in the
early stages of printing to the console, and using a code template (and
no, not a C++ template!) from a tutorial to make an empty window using
the Windows API. I was able to make a wrapper library in C in order to
get battery information and stuff like that, but that isn't particularly
difficult as long as you know about structs...Try building it though! Yikes.
Still. Trying to find C or C++ code that duplicates all the
functionality of BGT? Well, good luck finding that and splicing it into
your own game engine type thingy if you don't know what you're doing.
Especially if you don't like having to use external DLL's.
Oh yeah, and good luck with the complicated realm of Makefiles,
especially in MinGW where its make utility, which is called MinGW32-Make
and not just make as most tutorials have you run, tries to call CC
instead of GCC...Yeah. What a mess!
If I can ever gain the confidence to walk now I've stood up
(metaphorically of course), it might be that I write my own tutorials.
Because it seems that everything out there is made for Linux. No wonder
it's so hard...
Then, again thanks to Linux, you have all this build automation and
package management garbage. C and C++, make. Ruby, rake. Python, PIP and
SCONS. JS, NPM and Electron. Even PHP now uses Composer and Ioncube.
Then there's debuggers. Valgrind, GDB, PDB, AppVerifier and the like.
Also, good luck learning about threads! Finally, for bigger languages,
you need to somehow wind your head around the concept of version control
like Git and SVN. While I know what you might call entry-level basics,
by no means do I know enough to successfully manage a large project.
Anyways. I'm just flooding out thoughts now and the majority of you
probably haven't a clue what anything I've said means. To be honest,
maybe it's even all rubbish. Let's face it, I clearly don't understand
the programming world! But I guess if the devs here want to reply off
list or whatever with their own thoughts and experiences then they can.
There is also, of course, the DAG list that, perhaps ironically, I run.
Cheers,
Damien.
On 21/05/2018 09:38 AM, Oriol Gómez wrote:
Hi Damien,
You are right in some of the things that you say, however BGT is no
longer really an option since antivirus software hates games created
in it anyway, and as many others have said, its outdated technology.
So, we have to find other ways.
Unity is a good way however it is not accessible.
So far, the best and easiest we've found is Java Script and it works
well for us.
It is true that Electron is bloated yes, but most users just need to
click the exe file of the application and it will work.
On 5/21/18, QuentinC <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello,
IF you want to to good js, yes, it's not that easy as it is said to be.
For sure, asynchronous programming and some basics of functional
programming are something new that you have to learn. But it is probably
no harder than well done object-oriented Java, C# and other with all
their design-pattern and stuff.
Though, note that nesting functions inside nested functions is the old
way of doing js.
Nowadays with promises and async/await it's much better and simpler.
It's true, you may also be confused because the same programming
language is used both on client and server side. If you don't pay
attention, you are going to create big security and/or performance
wholes. Just keep in mind where your code is going to run and you are fine.
About the question of accessibility and screen reader confusion because
you are in a desktop application looking like a webpage, there, however,
I agree. As computer scientists or at least power users, we dont have
any problems with that. But when I see that some people take 3 hours
just to click next next next to install the playroom, I'm still afraid
that most blind users aren't ready for the change yet.
I don't know, though, which one of screen readers or elektron/nwjs still
ahve to be improved so that most of use become confident about that
style of apps.
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