There is pascal.
I used free pascal at school for console programming.
Thats not exactly a gaming language and I am unsure how to really
program games with it.
However its easy enough to make small console no sound apps.
Purebasic was the language of choice when realitysoftware was in full
production.
One issues that was encounted early on were its limmits.
Deathmach alpha ran free sl it was supposed to have 3d audio, but ran
into a few issues.
The biggest one was that it coudl crash and would do it a lot,
especially if you died a lot.
Its buffers never emptied and eventually would max out and you would
have to restart.
3 times it was tried for a 3d /2d type deal, but always issues with
limitations to the language or libraries were found.
One lesson learned sadly ending in realitysoftware's destruction is that
never start an online and offline thing together unless you are ready
for it.
After all the hackers, spammers, cheaters and bann evadors that existed,
complaints, threats from those, and suggestions and features from users,
the company finally went bust.
To be fair the lead dev did put to much on his plate, he came back 3
times and tried but after deathmatch 1, snowrace and scateboarding, it
never got off the ground.
One limit descovered was unless you payed for it your online experiences
were not that good especially with loads of objects over 100 or so,
pluss all the users and such even though that was small.
Things didn't work the same and things died.
But yeah bgt is nice to start with, but sadly any compiled games will
cause headakes.
Note though that this stuff is only with the latest bgt versions
versions before this one were fine.
Now I know a few using bgt, l-works is one of them that is still using it,
And a few others are still using it and it works for them but you do
need to hide bits of your hard drive from viruses.
Then again if you don't hit the limits bgt may be fine.
The biggest thing is with microsoft depricating old directx8 and all the
panning support, its going to be harder to get things to pan right
without all sort of things.
Earlier in the piece, tom ward attempted to run with f mod and sfml and
got a partial success.
Not a full over the top pan but things got louder at points, and thats
where it went.
Sadly sfml liked to crash and be bad for users.
He did try though.
On 5/21/2018 9:48 PM, Damien Garwood wrote:
Hi,
I know BGT is no longer an option...Hence one of the reasons I've been
somewhat dormant on the programming side for three years trying to
find a decent language.
But yeah. Whatever I use, there's always something I don't understand,
or can't stand.
1. Python: Comprehensive enough language, but can't stand indentation,
and because it's interpreted that obviously makes it somewhat slower.
Not as slow as I've seen in some other languages...Hell, look at NVDA.
I must admit that's faster than I could ever imagine from an
interpreted language. Not to mention the fact that, though I have
dreams of one day being competent enough to make open-source apps, I
can't ever see me having the self-confidence to do that. Hacking in
BGT is one thing, trying to hack out code in other languages is a
different thing entirely. Since Python isn't designed for making
executables, let alone closed-source, that means installing more extra
packages with the nasty PIP, some of which try to manually build its
contents with Visual C++ or whatever other programming blah it needs.
Also, using external libraries or DLL's looks complicated, not that I
particularly like using DLL's in the first place!
2. BASIC: While I used to program in VB6, it left a very sour taste in
my mouth when it came to finding libraries. Such is also the case with
FreeBASIC, PowerBASIC and so on. PureBASIC looks promising, except for
its bizarre syntax. But if you want to use external libraries, once
again, you either have to use DLL's, or attempt to compile them
yourself with C or C++ and use statics.
3. C#, modern VB etc: I have always had an aversion to .NET-based
platforms. The .NET framework, once again, is so bulky and bloated. Of
course, more often than not we don't need to worry about installation
any more, as it comes prepackaged with Windows, but still. Apart from
which, yet again, without extra tools, it is so easy to decompile and
obtain the original sources.
4. AutoIt, BGT etc: Well we all know about antivirus tricks, not to
mention BGT's limitations and GC failures, and AutoIt's excessive
slowness. Ironically enough, these are by far the most simple
development environments I've ever worked with. Again though, external
libraries? Because they're interpreted, it's unfortunately the dreaded
DLL.
5. C and C++: This seems to be the way of most libraries. You want
some extra functionality, you need to use libraries, and that seems to
be a common stumbling block among all programming languages. The only
difference is, if it isn't C or C++, you have an additional layer of
abstraction to have to work with to build it and then make a wrapper
for that language, either Python or C# or whatever.
Of course, that leads me to believe that the best language to work
with would be the source of all sources...C and C++. Of course, the
advantage there, is that, because of their low-leveledness and
compiled rather than interpreted, you can really optimise it if you
know how. But then you're looking at possibly the hardest languages in
existence, where you have to learn about managing memory, using
external debuggers which obviously means knowing how to make different
build configurations. Then of course there's all this cross-platform
blah, unless you want to use Visual C++ which also seems to be a high
loaded bloat, at least in my experience...I've known other people use
it, how I have no idea. But still.
I've spent pretty much the past three years experimenting with trial
and error with C and C++, and if this tells you anything, I'm still in
the early stages of printing to the console, and using a code template
(and no, not a C++ template!) from a tutorial to make an empty window
using the Windows API. I was able to make a wrapper library in C in
order to get battery information and stuff like that, but that isn't
particularly difficult as long as you know about structs...Try
building it though! Yikes.
Still. Trying to find C or C++ code that duplicates all the
functionality of BGT? Well, good luck finding that and splicing it
into your own game engine type thingy if you don't know what you're
doing. Especially if you don't like having to use external DLL's.
Oh yeah, and good luck with the complicated realm of Makefiles,
especially in MinGW where its make utility, which is called
MinGW32-Make and not just make as most tutorials have you run, tries
to call CC instead of GCC...Yeah. What a mess!
If I can ever gain the confidence to walk now I've stood up
(metaphorically of course), it might be that I write my own tutorials.
Because it seems that everything out there is made for Linux. No
wonder it's so hard...
Then, again thanks to Linux, you have all this build automation and
package management garbage. C and C++, make. Ruby, rake. Python, PIP
and SCONS. JS, NPM and Electron. Even PHP now uses Composer and
Ioncube. Then there's debuggers. Valgrind, GDB, PDB, AppVerifier and
the like. Also, good luck learning about threads! Finally, for bigger
languages, you need to somehow wind your head around the concept of
version control like Git and SVN. While I know what you might call
entry-level basics, by no means do I know enough to successfully
manage a large project.
Anyways. I'm just flooding out thoughts now and the majority of you
probably haven't a clue what anything I've said means. To be honest,
maybe it's even all rubbish. Let's face it, I clearly don't understand
the programming world! But I guess if the devs here want to reply off
list or whatever with their own thoughts and experiences then they
can. There is also, of course, the DAG list that, perhaps ironically,
I run.
Cheers,
Damien.
On 21/05/2018 09:38 AM, Oriol Gómez wrote:
Hi Damien,
You are right in some of the things that you say, however BGT is no
longer really an option since antivirus software hates games created
in it anyway, and as many others have said, its outdated technology.
So, we have to find other ways.
Unity is a good way however it is not accessible.
So far, the best and easiest we've found is Java Script and it works
well for us.
It is true that Electron is bloated yes, but most users just need to
click the exe file of the application and it will work.
On 5/21/18, QuentinC <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello,
IF you want to to good js, yes, it's not that easy as it is said to be.
For sure, asynchronous programming and some basics of functional
programming are something new that you have to learn. But it is
probably
no harder than well done object-oriented Java, C# and other with all
their design-pattern and stuff.
Though, note that nesting functions inside nested functions is the old
way of doing js.
Nowadays with promises and async/await it's much better and simpler.
It's true, you may also be confused because the same programming
language is used both on client and server side. If you don't pay
attention, you are going to create big security and/or performance
wholes. Just keep in mind where your code is going to run and you
are fine.
About the question of accessibility and screen reader confusion because
you are in a desktop application looking like a webpage, there,
however,
I agree. As computer scientists or at least power users, we dont have
any problems with that. But when I see that some people take 3 hours
just to click next next next to install the playroom, I'm still afraid
that most blind users aren't ready for the change yet.
I don't know, though, which one of screen readers or elektron/nwjs
still
ahve to be improved so that most of use become confident about that
style of apps.
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