could it be said that the closed units are any less likely to CO leaks? I guess I was forgetting that it is not the burned air, but the heat exchanged off of the block that heats the house.
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Dale Leavens wrote: > When you use an open combustion heating system you are burning the air in > your building then sending it up the chimney. That air you have been paying > to heat then running it through the flame and outside. > > A closed combustion unit draws it's combustion air from outside, burns it > with the fuel and then sends it back outside. It never participates with the > atmosphere in the building. This also means that the inside environment air > never communicates directly with the outdoor environment through the heating > appliance. > > It takes quite a lot of fuel to warm internal air to say 70F. To then burn > that air to keep the rest of the air at that temperature is > counterproductive, particularly if you can burn outside air that you haven't > already heated. The actual temperature of the air being burned isn't > important. > > Hope this clarifies things. > > > Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Skype DaleLeavens > Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 2:18 PM > Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] what to know about replacing your central unit > > >> the only part of this I didn't understand Dale, was the >> all ready heated air" part. What is the theory behind using cooler outside >> air? >> thanks >> >> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007, Dale Leavens wrote: >> >>> Hi Scott, >>> >>> Yes, drilling holes to extract geothermal heat is very expensive. The >>> water >>> sort can be open or closed loop, they can draw water from the bottom of a >>> lake or river then return it when the heat or cold is extracted from it >>> or >>> they can be closed loop, water or other virulant is run through closed >>> pipe >>> in a water bath like a lake. >>> >>> Rather than drilling holes though you can dig a trench 8 to 10 feet deep >>> depending on your frost line, possibly a little shallower and lay a >>> closed >>> loop system into it. That is much cheaper than dropping it down a hole. >>> >>> To answer your other question, closed combustion units draw combustion >>> air >>> from the outside into a closed chamber where it is burned and then blown >>> back out. Usually two 3 inch PVC pipes are used, there are limits to the >>> distance you can run them, up here we usually push them out through the >>> rim >>> joist but the exhaust must be some distance from a window or other >>> opening >>> just to keep carbon monoxide out. >>> >>> There is a fan which comes on to clear any residual gasses from the >>> system >>> after which an igniter starts a pilot then the main fuel. Fuel is >>> circulated >>> along with the exhaust gasses back through the combustion chamber in ways >>> to >>> burn any incompletely combusted fuel and the lot recirculated until what >>> comes out of the exhaust is about body temperature along with a load of >>> water which is drained off the bottom of the unit. >>> >>> The better gas units or propane units claim something like 98% efficiency >>> but I understand that there are fuel oil versions these days which are >>> pretty darn good to, a little more carbon to get rid of I suppose. >>> >>> The real advantage is not just the efficiency but you are not burning >>> already heated room air and you don't have an open flue constantly >>> withdrawing heat up the chimney. Usually finding a place for an inlet and >>> outlet pipe is easy no chimney and very cool. >>> >>> I expect you could go Propane but it will cost to have a tank, similarly >>> fuel oil. >>> >>> If you have enough soil though, a back hoe up here costs about 50 bucks >>> an >>> hour last time I hired one and they shift a load of dirt in an hour if >>> you >>> want to consider geothermal. It won't be cheap to instal but it will give >>> you efficiency similar to what you might expect with outdoor >>> temperatures >>> at a constant 55 or so degrees F. There is the additional cost of running >>> the circulating pump but that is minimal. >>> >>> I have a gas closed combustion furnace in my basement, don't remember the >>> capacity. I am now having a little trouble with reliability, it is now 16 >>> seasons old. There are a number of sequencing things which have to >>> happen, >>> little vacuum sensors and such which detect that all the cycles complete >>> before heat comes through each demand cycle and we have been having a >>> little >>> trouble recently with it. I took it apart last week and found some crap >>> in >>> the tip of one of the rubber tubes I think washed down the exhaust vent >>> with >>> water, it looked to me like a shard of the PVC when a pipe was cut, >>> probably >>> washed down over time with condensation. There are a lot of parts though >>> which could fail. >>> >>> Hope this information is helpful. >>> >>> Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Skype DaleLeavens >>> Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Scott Howell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:42 PM >>> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] what to know about replacing your central >>> unit >>> >>> >>>> Now water to air sound really interesting. Gee, wish I had known >>>> about these when I was getting a new system. I looked into one of the >>>> geothermal systems and they could install, but I'd need a 400 foot >>>> hole drilled and man that would have cost some serious cash so I had >>>> to scrap that plan. Drilling into the ground here wouldn't be easy >>>> since we sit on a great deal of rock. >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To listen to the show archives go to link >>>> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html >>>> or >>>> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ >>>> >>>> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. >>>> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday >>>> >>>> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. >>>> http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml >>>> >>>> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From >>>> Various >>>> List Members At The Following address: >>>> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ >>>> >>>> Visit the new archives page at the following address >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man >>>> list just send a blank message to: >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>> Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.1/690 - Release Date: >>>> 16/02/2007 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> To listen to the show archives go to link >> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html >> or >> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ >> >> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. >> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday >> >> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. >> http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml >> >> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various >> List Members At The Following address: >> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ >> >> Visit the new archives page at the following address >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man >> list just send a blank message to: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: 19/02/2007 >> >> > > To listen to the show archives go to link http://acbradio.org/handyman.html or ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various List Members At The Following address: http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ Visit the new archives page at the following address http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list just send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! 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