I'd be much more likely to support the extension if there was a report-out on what we've learned this far, particularly given the increasing risks presented by big products using it (Sheets) given that we're proposing to stretch to 8 months with no breaking changes.
Best, Alex On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:16:42 AM UTC-7 Emanuel Ziegler wrote: > On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 7:22 PM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> > wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 9:43 AM Emanuel Ziegler <ecmzieg...@chromium.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Chris, >>> >>> There is an extensive summary document from the Sheets colleagues >>> (including a tl;dr section in the beginning): go/sheets-wasm-corp-50 >>> We believe that error count and crash rate (mostly OOM) regressions are >>> caused by user space code but investigations are ongoing and we expect >>> improvements over the next weeks. >>> >> >> Thanks! This is a Google-internal document, can some of it be shared >> publicly? >> > > I can ask, but since these numbers are WIP on a Google-internal trial with > a Google product, I would be cautious. Afterﾠall, they might not tell that > much about the state of WasmGC as a lot of this is still heavily influenced > by user space code as mentioned above. The numbers are going to be more > meaningful once we have reached a more stable state and are ready to > rollﾠit out to external users. > > Jetbrains is also using the OT for Kotlin, but I'm not aware of detailed >>> insights. They advertised it in a talk at WasmIO >>> <https://seb.deleuze.fr/introducing-kotlin-wasm/>ﾠa few months back. >>> >> >> Would you mind asking them for feedback? Not blocking extending the OT, >> but feedback from OT participants is important to gather. >> > > Sure. Jetbrains themselves surely have feedback on WasmGC in general but > likely limited insights from the trial itself. They might have received > feedback from their partners though that I can ask them about. > > Best regards, >>> Emanuel >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 6:03 PM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Could you share summary feedback and learnings from the OT so far? The >>>> Sheets performance results sound great, anything else to share? >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 7:48 AM Emanuel Ziegler < >>>> ecmzieg...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> We are requesting to extend our Origin Trial on WasmGC by another >>>>> three milestones, effectively ending with M120. >>>>> >>>>> The reason is that the standardization process is taking a little >>>>> longer than we had hoped for and will be delayed by about three months >>>>> blocking the shipment of a stable version. Since Google Sheets is >>>>> currently >>>>> running user experiments using the trial with positive results (currently >>>>> at 50% of Google corporate sheets showing ~40% calculation time >>>>> improvement), we would like to continue this experiment for the time >>>>> being >>>>> to gather more data, especially extending it to non-Google users before >>>>> shipping. >>>>> >>>>> The current end milestone for the trial is M117 with the most >>>>> optimistic shipment of the feature happening in M119, perhaps even later >>>>> if >>>>> last minute spec changes are requested before we can reach phase 4 of the >>>>> proposal. We would therefore potentially end the trial before M120 if >>>>> shipment were indeed to happen sooner or use the full three milestones if >>>>> there are further delays. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Contact emails >>>>> >>>>> ad...@chromium.org, jkumme...@chromium.org >>>>> >>>>> Explainer >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/WebAssembly/gc/blob/master/proposals/gc/Overview.md >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/WebAssembly/function-references/blob/main/proposals/function-references/Overview.md >>>>> >>>>> Specification >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/WebAssembly/gc/tree/main/proposals/gc >>>>> >>>>> Summary >>>>> >>>>> The GC proposal adds efficient support for high-level managed >>>>> languages to WebAssembly, via struct and array types that enable language >>>>> compilers targeting Wasm to integrate with a garbage collector in the >>>>> host >>>>> VM. In Chrome, enabling this feature implies enabling Typed Function >>>>> References, which allow function references to be stored in the >>>>> aforementioned structs and arrays. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Blink component >>>>> >>>>> Blink>JavaScript>WebAssembly >>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EJavaScript%3EWebAssembly> >>>>> >>>>> Search tags >>>>> >>>>> wasm <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:wasm>, webassembly >>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:webassembly>, gc >>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:gc>, managed objects >>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:managed%20objects>, wasmgc >>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:wasmgc> >>>>> >>>>> TAG review >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/814 >>>>> >>>>> TAG review status >>>>> >>>>> Issues addressed >>>>> >>>>> Risks >>>>> >>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>> >>>>> Gecko: Positive >>>>> >>>>> WebKit: No signal >>>>> >>>>> Web developers: Positive Google Sheets, which is currently compiling >>>>> Java to JavaScript, is experimenting with using WasmGC to speed up their >>>>> calculation engine. JetBrains is working on a Kotlin -> WasmGC compiler. >>>>> Dart is working on a Dart -> WasmGC compiler, in collaboration with >>>>> Flutter. >>>>> >>>>> Other signals: >>>>> >>>>> WebView application risks >>>>> >>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such >>>>> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Goals for experimentation >>>>> >>>>> Ongoing technical constraints >>>>> >>>>> Debuggability >>>>> >>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, >>>>> Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? >>>>> >>>>> No >>>>> >>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>> ? >>>>> >>>>> No >>>>> >>>>> Flag name >>>>> >>>>> Requires code in //chrome? >>>>> >>>>> False >>>>> >>>>> Tracking bug >>>>> >>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/v8/issues/detail?id=7748 >>>>> >>>>> Launch bug >>>>> >>>>> https://launch.corp.google.com/launch/4231622 >>>>> >>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>> >>>>> OriginTrial desktop last >>>>> >>>>> 117 >>>>> >>>>> OriginTrial desktop first >>>>> >>>>> 112 >>>>> >>>>> OriginTrial Android last >>>>> >>>>> 117 >>>>> >>>>> OriginTrial Android first >>>>> >>>>> 112 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>> >>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/6062715726462976 >>>>> >>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions >>>>> >>>>> Intent to Experiment: >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/HDbvHCVFSW0 >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAPAU7Ryv%3D-1UFkh%2BJ5GBxMFBQ88FMa9u%3Dvbboo0hCy9xcOGgAA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAPAU7Ryv%3D-1UFkh%2BJ5GBxMFBQ88FMa9u%3Dvbboo0hCy9xcOGgAA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAPAU7RwLJsFGk6XBHrBqwoG5_MNCvPyF_dLb2R_Wsy6ALCAkYw%40mail.gmail.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAPAU7RwLJsFGk6XBHrBqwoG5_MNCvPyF_dLb2R_Wsy6ALCAkYw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/c3b61f61-b683-4869-b8f1-f6633d295768n%40chromium.org.
