I agree with Mike that the incremental entropy available is probably acceptable. I don't have any data/awareness of demand for this setting but it is at least some signal that it is available on Windows, Mac, iOS (thanks Luke). I'll ping some folks and come back (or they will) if there is info to share. On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 1:41:45 PM UTC-4 Luke wrote:
> Is there anything more I can do to help move this conversation forward? I > would try to gather a consensus that authors would use it but I don't have > a following large enough to gather anything valuable. > > On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 17:27:27 UTC+1 Luke wrote: > >> > ...effectively empty, with an inline issue saying ~"TODO: figure out if >> these are OK". >> >> I've added a comment >> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/3488#issuecomment-1652125743> >> to an existing CSS spec issue regarding that issue section. >> >> > Based on >> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/145#issuecomment-1478736469, >> >> it doesn't seem like there's a lot of appetite from Apple or Mozilla. >> >> There's mixed signals from Mozilla and especially Apple imo. >> >> While Apple have added a general concerns label for all `prefers-*` media >> queries, they've also implemented at least 3 of them along with being the >> only UA to currently expose `inverted-colors` information. They've also >> made 1 of the two current issues regarding potential new preference media >> queries (namely prefers-reduced-strobing >> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8651>) >> >> Mozilla likewise don't seem overly keen on prefers-reduced-transparency >> (a third party implemented it recently but so far it remains disabled by >> default) but have also exposed the 3 existing prefers media queries along >> with also implementing `forced-colors` (Apple has too but it always >> evaluates to false so isn't relavant). They also started a PR >> <https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/pull/410> to add a >> supportive position for the preference media queries given their >> accessibility benefits. >> >> > My own take is that if it can benefit some users, and sites will use >> it, the incremental entropy available here is probably acceptable. >> >> I would agree if there's an improved accessibility experience it's worth >> the privacy tradeoff imo. As for how useful users and site authors would >> find it I'm not sure how best to go about finding that out. There's various >> blog posts mentioning it, and obviously there must be some benefit to >> exposing the settings else Microsoft and Apple wouldn't have explicit >> settings for it. Potentially some a11y specialists could chime in on this >> front? >> >> On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 16:28:42 UTC+1 [email protected] wrote: >> >>> As to the fingerprintability, we should think about the trade-offs we're >>> making between accessibility and adding more active surfaces that give away >>> some bits of entropy. I'd love to hear more about requests from the a11y or >>> developer community to actually have this MQ available to them. My own take >>> is that if it can benefit some users, and sites will use it, the >>> incremental entropy available here is probably acceptable. >>> >>> I note that https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-5/#mq-prefers-security >>> is effectively empty, with an inline issue saying ~"TODO: figure out if >>> these are OK". That doesn't seem super great. Do we know if there is >>> consensus among editors on the utility vs privacy trade offs of these MQs? >>> (Maybe Tab can chime in on this topic...). >>> >>> Based on >>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/145#issuecomment-1478736469, >>> >>> it doesn't seem like there's a lot of appetite from Apple or Mozilla. >>> On 7/24/23 4:13 AM, Yoav Weiss wrote: >>> >>> I'd love to hear +Mike Taylor 's thought about this from an extra >>> fingerprinting bit perspective. Also, how would users signal their >>> preference? >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 23:21 Luke <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Contact emails [email protected], [email protected] >>>> >>>> Explainer None >>>> >>>> Specification >>>> https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-5/#prefers-reduced-transparency >>>> >>>> Summary >>>> >>>> Adds the `prefers-reduced-transparency` feature, which lets authors >>>> adapt web content to user-selected preference for reduced transparency in >>>> the OS, such as the 'Reduce transparency' setting on macOS. Valid options >>>> are 'reduce' or 'no-preference'. >>>> >>>> >>>> Blink component Blink>CSS >>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ECSS> >>>> >>>> Search tags css <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:css>, >>>> prefers-reduced-transparency >>>> <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:prefers-reduced-transparency> >>>> >>>> TAG review None >>>> >>>> TAG review status Not applicable >>>> >>>> Risks >>>> >>>> >>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>> >>>> *Gecko*: No signal ( >>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/851) There is a >>>> separate umbrella issue for some the preference media queries (contrast, >>>> motion, color-scheme). They have a stale PR to add an overall positive >>>> position for those preference media queries. They also have an >>>> implementation behind a flag. It's not been enabled yet due to >>>> fingerprinting concerns. >>>> >>>> *WebKit*: No signal ( >>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/145) I have >>>> submitted an implementation of this feature as a PR to WebKit: >>>> https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/pull/11560 >>>> >>>> *Web developers*: Positive ( >>>> https://blog.logrocket.com/new-media-queries-you-need-to-know) >>>> >>>> *Other signals*: >>>> >>>> Security >>>> >>>> This feature can be used for fingerprinting as it exposes a user >>>> preference. >>>> >>>> >>>> WebView application risks >>>> >>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such >>>> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications? >>>> >>>> >>>> Debuggability >>>> >>>> This can be emulated in the Dev Tools rendering tab like other >>>> preference media queries. >>>> >>>> >>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, >>>> Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? Yes >>>> >>>> The feature will be supported on all platforms, but whether the user >>>> will be able to signal a reduced transparency preference may depend on the >>>> OS. >>>> >>>> >>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>> ? Yes >>>> >>>> Flag name on chrome://flags #enable-experimental-web-platform-features >>>> >>>> Finch feature name PrefersReducedTransparency >>>> >>>> Requires code in //chrome? False >>>> >>>> Tracking bug >>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1424879 >>>> >>>> Sample links >>>> >>>> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/prefers-reduced-transparency#examples >>>> >>>> Estimated milestones >>>> Shipping on desktop 117 >>>> DevTrial on desktop 117 >>>> Shipping on Android 117 >>>> DevTrial on Android 117 >>>> >>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>> >>>> Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web compat or >>>> interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to known github issues >>>> in the project for the feature specification) whose resolution may >>>> introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing to naming or structure >>>> of >>>> the API in a non-backward-compatible way). >>>> >>>> >>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5191066147356672 >>>> >>>> Links to previous Intent discussions Intent to prototype: >>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6D62B5CD-B44D-4CB1-B85A-F73DFFD6CE85%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/27CA7B34-5C7E-44DE-A75D-41E6034DD833%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/27CA7B34-5C7E-44DE-A75D-41E6034DD833%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/ffce1bda-3b46-4bd1-870b-3dbef003a8f4n%40chromium.org.
