https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/881 I've filed a tag review (hopefully filled it all out correctly)
On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 00:03:46 UTC+1 Chris Harrelson wrote: > Hi Luke, could you file for a TAG review for this feature? > > On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 7:56 AM 'David Bolter' via blink-dev < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> I agree with Mike that the incremental entropy available is probably >> acceptable. I don't have any data/awareness of demand for this setting but >> it is at least some signal that it is available on Windows, Mac, iOS >> (thanks Luke). I'll ping some folks and come back (or they will) if there >> is info to share. >> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 1:41:45 PM UTC-4 Luke wrote: >> >>> Is there anything more I can do to help move this conversation forward? >>> I would try to gather a consensus that authors would use it but I don't >>> have a following large enough to gather anything valuable. >>> >>> On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 17:27:27 UTC+1 Luke wrote: >>> >>>> > ...effectively empty, with an inline issue saying ~"TODO: figure out >>>> if these are OK". >>>> >>>> I've added a comment >>>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/3488#issuecomment-1652125743> >>>> to an existing CSS spec issue regarding that issue section. >>>> >>>> > Based on >>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/145#issuecomment-1478736469, >>>> >>>> it doesn't seem like there's a lot of appetite from Apple or Mozilla. >>>> >>>> There's mixed signals from Mozilla and especially Apple imo. >>>> >>>> While Apple have added a general concerns label for all `prefers-*` >>>> media queries, they've also implemented at least 3 of them along with >>>> being >>>> the only UA to currently expose `inverted-colors` information. They've >>>> also >>>> made 1 of the two current issues regarding potential new preference media >>>> queries (namely prefers-reduced-strobing >>>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8651>) >>>> >>>> Mozilla likewise don't seem overly keen on prefers-reduced-transparency >>>> (a third party implemented it recently but so far it remains disabled by >>>> default) but have also exposed the 3 existing prefers media queries along >>>> with also implementing `forced-colors` (Apple has too but it always >>>> evaluates to false so isn't relavant). They also started a PR >>>> <https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/pull/410> to add a >>>> supportive position for the preference media queries given their >>>> accessibility benefits. >>>> >>>> > My own take is that if it can benefit some users, and sites will use >>>> it, the incremental entropy available here is probably acceptable. >>>> >>>> I would agree if there's an improved accessibility experience it's >>>> worth the privacy tradeoff imo. As for how useful users and site authors >>>> would find it I'm not sure how best to go about finding that out. There's >>>> various blog posts mentioning it, and obviously there must be some benefit >>>> to exposing the settings else Microsoft and Apple wouldn't have explicit >>>> settings for it. Potentially some a11y specialists could chime in on this >>>> front? >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 16:28:42 UTC+1 [email protected] >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> As to the fingerprintability, we should think about the trade-offs >>>>> we're making between accessibility and adding more active surfaces that >>>>> give away some bits of entropy. I'd love to hear more about requests from >>>>> the a11y or developer community to actually have this MQ available to >>>>> them. >>>>> My own take is that if it can benefit some users, and sites will use it, >>>>> the incremental entropy available here is probably acceptable. >>>>> >>>>> I note that >>>>> https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-5/#mq-prefers-security is >>>>> effectively empty, with an inline issue saying ~"TODO: figure out if >>>>> these >>>>> are OK". That doesn't seem super great. Do we know if there is consensus >>>>> among editors on the utility vs privacy trade offs of these MQs? (Maybe >>>>> Tab >>>>> can chime in on this topic...). >>>>> >>>>> Based on >>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/145#issuecomment-1478736469, >>>>> >>>>> it doesn't seem like there's a lot of appetite from Apple or Mozilla. >>>>> On 7/24/23 4:13 AM, Yoav Weiss wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I'd love to hear +Mike Taylor 's thought about this from an extra >>>>> fingerprinting bit perspective. Also, how would users signal their >>>>> preference? >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 23:21 Luke <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Contact emails [email protected], [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> Explainer None >>>>>> >>>>>> Specification >>>>>> https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-5/#prefers-reduced-transparency >>>>>> >>>>>> Summary >>>>>> >>>>>> Adds the `prefers-reduced-transparency` feature, which lets authors >>>>>> adapt web content to user-selected preference for reduced transparency >>>>>> in >>>>>> the OS, such as the 'Reduce transparency' setting on macOS. Valid >>>>>> options >>>>>> are 'reduce' or 'no-preference'. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Blink component Blink>CSS >>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ECSS> >>>>>> >>>>>> Search tags css <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:css>, >>>>>> prefers-reduced-transparency >>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:prefers-reduced-transparency> >>>>>> >>>>>> TAG review None >>>>>> >>>>>> TAG review status Not applicable >>>>>> >>>>>> Risks >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>> >>>>>> *Gecko*: No signal ( >>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/851) There is >>>>>> a separate umbrella issue for some the preference media queries >>>>>> (contrast, >>>>>> motion, color-scheme). They have a stale PR to add an overall positive >>>>>> position for those preference media queries. They also have an >>>>>> implementation behind a flag. It's not been enabled yet due to >>>>>> fingerprinting concerns. >>>>>> >>>>>> *WebKit*: No signal ( >>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/145) I have >>>>>> submitted an implementation of this feature as a PR to WebKit: >>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/pull/11560 >>>>>> >>>>>> *Web developers*: Positive ( >>>>>> https://blog.logrocket.com/new-media-queries-you-need-to-know) >>>>>> >>>>>> *Other signals*: >>>>>> >>>>>> Security >>>>>> >>>>>> This feature can be used for fingerprinting as it exposes a user >>>>>> preference. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> WebView application risks >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such >>>>>> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>> >>>>>> This can be emulated in the Dev Tools rendering tab like other >>>>>> preference media queries. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, >>>>>> Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? Yes >>>>>> >>>>>> The feature will be supported on all platforms, but whether the user >>>>>> will be able to signal a reduced transparency preference may depend on >>>>>> the >>>>>> OS. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>> ? Yes >>>>>> >>>>>> Flag name on chrome://flags >>>>>> #enable-experimental-web-platform-features >>>>>> >>>>>> Finch feature name PrefersReducedTransparency >>>>>> >>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? False >>>>>> >>>>>> Tracking bug >>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1424879 >>>>>> >>>>>> Sample links >>>>>> >>>>>> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/prefers-reduced-transparency#examples >>>>>> >>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>> Shipping on desktop 117 >>>>>> DevTrial on desktop 117 >>>>>> Shipping on Android 117 >>>>>> DevTrial on Android 117 >>>>>> >>>>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>>>> >>>>>> Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web compat >>>>>> or interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to known github >>>>>> issues in the project for the feature specification) whose resolution >>>>>> may >>>>>> introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing to naming or structure >>>>>> of >>>>>> the API in a non-backward-compatible way). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5191066147356672 >>>>>> >>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions Intent to prototype: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6D62B5CD-B44D-4CB1-B85A-F73DFFD6CE85%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/27CA7B34-5C7E-44DE-A75D-41E6034DD833%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/27CA7B34-5C7E-44DE-A75D-41E6034DD833%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "blink-dev" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/ffce1bda-3b46-4bd1-870b-3dbef003a8f4n%40chromium.org >> >> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/ffce1bda-3b46-4bd1-870b-3dbef003a8f4n%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/d4668009-9867-4ea1-8af4-945db5a05aecn%40chromium.org.
