LGTM3 On Monday, March 10, 2025 at 7:33:20 PM UTC+1 Chris Harrelson wrote:
> LGTM2 > > On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 9:20 AM Philip Jägenstedt <foo...@chromium.org> > wrote: > >> The API owners discussed this again last week, considering it >> alongside H265 (HEVC) codec support in WebRTC. We invited Dale Curtis, >> Frank Galligan, and Henrik Boström to better understand the situation. >> >> The case for supporting HEVC is that it can result in a better user >> experience if supported in hardware, and Henrik provided some numbers on >> that in the WebRTC thread. From a platform perspective, one might also say >> that web apps are at a disadvantage to native apps if they can't use the >> same device capabilities. >> >> It remains the case that we prefer royalty-free (RF) codecs and don't >> want to disincentivize their adoption/use. AV1 has already been supported >> for a long time and is in wide use, so the risk in this case seems small. >> An important point is that web developers cannot depend on HEVC support >> exclusively, given the support numbers that Henrik shared. >> >> To avoid setting a precedent for future non-RF codecs, approval for HEVC >> in the remaining contexts comes with some caveats: >> >> - The approval is only for exposing OS-provided HEVC support, not for >> other OS-provided codecs, and not for browser-provided HEVC. >> - That there is a well established alternative in AV1 is important. >> - We're open to mitigations like Finch-disabling support for a >> percentage of users to ensure that HEVC support cannot be taken for >> granted. >> >> LGTM1 with those caveats. >> >> On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 6:50 PM Henrik Boström <h...@google.com> wrote: >> >>> For reference, I had some hardware availability numbers over in the I2S >>> thread for H265 in WebRTC >>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/dc0e11bc-5ca2-47f8-b01b-0deedb3a1038n%40chromium.org> >>> . >>> >>> On Tuesday, March 4, 2025 at 3:12:33 PM UTC+1 朱思达 wrote: >>> >>>> Given your example, it seems like `video/mp4;codecs="hev1.1.6.L120.90"` >>>> is supported by Chrome but not Safari, while the opposite is true for >>>> `video/mp4;codecs="hvc1"`. >>>> >>>> AFAIK, Safari doesn't support HEVC MediaRecorder encoding. If you are >>>> talking about decoding, for decoding, safari supports both >>>> `video/mp4;codecs="hvc1"` and `video/mp4;codecs="hvc1.1.6.L120.90"` >>>> mimetypes, but technically, the "full" mimetypes is an ISO standard >>>> (Please >>>> refer to: ISO/IEC 14496-15:2019 - Annex E), and >>>> `video/mp4;codecs="hvc1"` is not incorrect. >>>> >>>> For MediaRecorder.isTypeSupported(), will we have the same situation? >>>> Are these strings clearly defined by specs and tested in WPT? >>>> >>>> They are defined in >>>> https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/web_tests/external/wpt/mediacapture-record/MediaRecorder-canvas-media-source.https.html;l=16 >>>> and >>>> ISO/IEC 14496-15:2019 - Annex E. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Sida >>>> From: "Philip Jägenstedt"<foo...@chromium.org> >>>> Date: Tue, Mar 4, 2025, 17:18 >>>> Subject: Re: [External] Re: [blink-dev] Re: Intent to Ship: H26x Codec >>>> support updates for MediaRecorder >>>> To: "朱思达"<zhu...@bytedance.com> >>>> Cc: "Markus Handell"<hand...@google.com>, "Dale Curtis"< >>>> dalec...@chromium.org>, "Ashley Gullen"<ash...@scirra.com>, "Mike >>>> Taylor"<mike...@chromium.org>, "blink-dev"<blin...@chromium.org> >>>> Thank you Sida for that breakdown, it's good to know we're not >>>> overlooking any encoding or decoding surface. >>>> >>>> The most important question here is the one of royalty-free codecs vs >>>> non-RF codecs, and the API owners will discuss this again alongside the >>>> WebRTC intent. >>>> >>>> Poking a bit at the details, however, is it really the case that even >>>> when Chrome and Safari support playing the same file, there's no codecs >>>> strings that they both claim support for? Given your example, it seems >>>> like `video/mp4;codecs="hev1.1.6.L120.90"` is supported by Chrome but not >>>> Safari, while the opposite is true for `video/mp4;codecs="hvc1"`. >>>> >>>> For MediaRecorder.isTypeSupported(), will we have the same situation? >>>> Are these strings clearly defined by specs and tested in WPT? >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Philip >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2025 at 4:33 AM 朱思达 <zhu...@bytedance.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Is decoding HEVC in plain <video> supported? I tried >>>>> `document.createElement('video').canPlayType('video/mp4; codecs=hvc1')` >>>>> which returns "probably" in Safari, but the empty string in Chrome. I >>>>> can't >>>>> tell from https://caniuse.com/hevc if I should expect it to be >>>>> supported or not. >>>>> >>>>> And how about in MSE? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The correct codec string should be >>>>> `video/mp4;codecs="hev1.1.6.L120.90"`, that's why 'video/mp4; >>>>> codecs=hvc1' is rejected on Chromium. You could try the code below to >>>>> test the support: >>>>> >>>>> ```javascript >>>>> const video = document.createElement('video'); >>>>> if (video.canPlayType('video/mp4;codecs="hev1.1.6.L120.90"') === >>>>> 'probably') { >>>>> console.log('HEVC is supported!'); >>>>> } >>>>> >>>>> if >>>>> (MediaSource.isTypeSupported('video/mp4;codecs="hev1.1.6.L120.90"')) { >>>>> console.log('HEVC is supported!'); >>>>> } >>>>> ``` >>>>> >>>>> For video decoding context, there are four major API FYI: >>>>> >>>>> 1. <video> + File. >>>>> 2. <video> + MSE. >>>>> 3. WebCodecs. >>>>> 4. WebRTC. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The HEVC support for the first three APIs has been enabled by default >>>>> in M107 (On all platforms including: Windows, macOS, Linux, Android, >>>>> ChromeOS). For the WebRTC API, there's activity happening to progress >>>>> towards. >>>>> >>>>> Are there contexts where HEVC is not yet supported that aren't covered >>>>> by this intent? WebRTC comes to mind, but are there any others? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For video encoding context, there are three major API FYI: >>>>> >>>>> 1. WebCodecs. >>>>> 2. MediaRecorder. >>>>> 3. WebRTC. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The HEVC support for the WebCodecs API has been enabled by default in >>>>> M130 (On WIndows, macOS, Android), and for the WebRTC API, there's >>>>> activity happening to progress towards. >>>>> From: "Markus Handell"<hand...@google.com> >>>>> Date: Thu, Feb 20, 2025, 03:40 >>>>> Subject: [External] Re: [blink-dev] Re: Intent to Ship: H26x Codec >>>>> support updates for MediaRecorder >>>>> To: "Philip Jägenstedt"<foo...@chromium.org> >>>>> Cc: "Dale Curtis"<dalec...@chromium.org>, "Ashley Gullen"< >>>>> ash...@scirra.com>, "Mike Taylor"<mike...@chromium.org>, "blink-dev"< >>>>> blin...@chromium.org>, "朱思达"<zhu...@bytedance.com> >>>>> I'll need to defer definitive answers regarding <video> and MSE >>>>> questions to Dale. But selecting video/mp4;codecs=hvc1.1.6.L186.B0,opus >>>>> as >>>>> format on >>>>> https://webrtc.github.io/samples/src/content/getusermedia/record/ >>>>> with MediaRecorderHEVCSupport enabled yields a video that plays back in >>>>> the >>>>> same window. >>>>> >>>>> > Are there contexts where HEVC is not yet supported that aren't >>>>> covered by this intent? WebRTC comes to mind, but are there any other? >>>>> >>>>> Correct, WebRTC doesn't yet have support but there's activity >>>>> happening to progress towards support though. What's the context of the >>>>> question though, interoperability? Recorded content from MediaRecorder >>>>> can't immediately be used with WebRTC connections. >>>>> >>>>> > Do we already support AV1 in every context where HEVC is supported >>>>> or is planned? >>>>> >>>>> Both WebRTC and MediaRecorder have had AV1 support for a long time. >>>>> I'll need to defer MSE & video support statements to Dale. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 19, 2025 at 6:02 PM Philip Jägenstedt <foo...@chromium.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> The API owners (Dan, Alex, Vlad, Yoav, Mike, Chris, Daniel, me) >>>>>> discussed this today. We'd like to understand a bit better where HEVC is >>>>>> already supported and what contexts don't yet support it. >>>>>> >>>>>> As mentioned, HEVC (encode and decode) is already supported in >>>>>> WebCodecs. The tests on wpt.fyi are failing >>>>>> <https://wpt.fyi/results/webcodecs?label=master&label=experimental&aligned&q=h265>, >>>>>> >>>>>> but presumably that's because the VMs the tests run in don't have the >>>>>> required hardware support. I tried a few of the tests and they pass on >>>>>> my >>>>>> own Mac machine. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is decoding HEVC in a plain <video> supported? I tried >>>>>> `document.createElement('video').canPlayType('video/mp4; codecs=hvc1')` >>>>>> which returns "probably" in Safari, but the empty string in Chrome. I >>>>>> can't >>>>>> tell from https://caniuse.com/hevc if I should expect it to be >>>>>> supported or not. >>>>>> >>>>>> And how about in MSE? >>>>>> >>>>>> Are there contexts where HEVC is not yet supported that aren't >>>>>> covered by this intent? WebRTC comes to mind, but are there any other? >>>>>> >>>>>> Note that HEVC is called out as an example in the Blink principles >>>>>> of web compatibility >>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RC-pBBvsazYfCNNUSkPqAVpSpNJ96U8trhNkfV0v9fk/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.prafhtr7ekmt>. >>>>>> Wherever >>>>>> royalty-free codecs like AV1 can be used, that's definitely preferable >>>>>> for >>>>>> the Chromium project and the web. Do we already support AV1 in every >>>>>> context where HEVC is supported or is planned? >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Philip >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 4:33 PM 'Markus Handell' via blink-dev < >>>>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> > Could you please request the various security, privacy, >>>>>>> enterprise, etc. bits in your chromestatus entry? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Done! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2025 at 7:40 PM Dale Curtis <dalec...@chromium.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sorry about that. Historically video codec changes were handled via >>>>>>>> internal processes since they were aspects of the underlying Chromium >>>>>>>> platform. Especially so in the case of HEVC where it requires hardware >>>>>>>> support. Going forward all video codec changes will use the Blink >>>>>>>> process. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - dale >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2025 at 9:12 AM Ashley Gullen <ash...@scirra.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As a web developer interested in Chrome's video encoding >>>>>>>>> capabilities with both WebCodecs and MediaRecorder, I had no idea >>>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>>> reading this that Chrome actually already shipped support for HEVC >>>>>>>>> encoding >>>>>>>>> with WebCodecs in M130 - it doesn't appear to be listed on >>>>>>>>> chromestatus.com. Could Google make sure significant updates like >>>>>>>>> this are noted there? Otherwise important updates can pass us right >>>>>>>>> by! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 at 16:09, Mike Taylor <mike...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Could you please request the various security, privacy, >>>>>>>>>> enterprise, etc. bits in your chromestatus entry? >>>>>>>>>> On 2/11/25 3:56 AM, 'Markus Handell' via blink-dev wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> CC Dale Curtis as well. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 11, 2025 at 9:56:11 AM UTC+1 Markus Handell >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Contact emails: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> zhu...@bytedance.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> hand...@google.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Explainer: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Explainer: Codec support updates for MediaRecorder >>>>>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YijhqWaeI118xqZV6Fd-UtqWpGDc-vFfFS6Dg4JEEqc/edit?tab=t.0> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <http://crbug.com/40276507>crbug.com/40276507 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> TAG review: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> N/A, small incremental change >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Summary: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Support for HEVC platform encoding was added in WebCodecs in >>>>>>>>>>> Chromium M130. As a follow-up, support has been added to the >>>>>>>>>>> MediaRecorder >>>>>>>>>>> API in Chromium. The API now supports both MP4 and Matroska muxer >>>>>>>>>>> types >>>>>>>>>>> with different HEVC and H.264 mime type specifications. HEVC >>>>>>>>>>> encoding is only >>>>>>>>>>> supported if the user's device and operating system provide the >>>>>>>>>>> necessary >>>>>>>>>>> capabilities. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Link to “Intent to Prototype” >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> N/A, small incremental change and going directly for shipping. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Gecko: Firefox 136 recently added support for decoding HEVC >>>>>>>>>>> videos, see >>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1924066> >>>>>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1924066. Standards >>>>>>>>>>> position request link: >>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/1174> >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/1174 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> WebKit: No official signal but note that MacBooks/iPhones have >>>>>>>>>>> >95% HW encode/decode support of H265 and that Safari has added >>>>>>>>>>> >support for >>>>>>>>>>> this codec in adjacent web APIs such as WebRTC. Standards position >>>>>>>>>>> request >>>>>>>>>>> link: <https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/460> >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/460 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Web developers: Positive. Support implemented by ByteDance & >>>>>>>>>>> Intel. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms >>>>>>>>>>> (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The support is currently limited to Windows, macOS and Android >>>>>>>>>>> hosts. ChromeOS and Linux support may follow in the future when/if >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> platform codec availability allows. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the existing test suite >>>>>>>>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/web_tests/external/wpt/mediacapture-record/> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> was extended with cases for the new codec strings. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Tracking bug >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <http://crbug.com/40276507>crbug.com/40276507 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/feature/6375884229181440> >>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/6375884229181440 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/edc31811-00da-4410-bfc7-b224bb825e4fn%40chromium.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/edc31811-00da-4410-bfc7-b224bb825e4fn%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/cb683232-ef5e-47f4-93fa-3e8809a0d2b5%40chromium.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/cb683232-ef5e-47f4-93fa-3e8809a0d2b5%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJjiFfG4zq4_mUknwsG%2BLetoM_RE1fiqFKVjkAyLJ4GpSUUkCw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJjiFfG4zq4_mUknwsG%2BLetoM_RE1fiqFKVjkAyLJ4GpSUUkCw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "blink-dev" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAARdPYcX26Vuu5_MuRGJuqk3TWUo6RVQCvP_pGPAJp_UBdn5MA%40mail.gmail.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAARdPYcX26Vuu5_MuRGJuqk3TWUo6RVQCvP_pGPAJp_UBdn5MA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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