ok, can you send me the link with how to do that? I would certainly appreciate it a lot.
-eric from the central office of the Technomage Guild, Access technology Division 6. On Mar 16, 2017, at 8:30 PM, Kelly Prescott wrote: > I use BSD all the time. > I use Qemu to set them up. > This gives me the text consoles and I can install them and speakup does the > work. > I do NetBSD, OpenBSD and FreeBSD all that way. > once they are installed, I just ssh to them. > > > > > On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Eric Oyen wrote: > >> that was one of the things I tried. I never could get it to work. Of course, >> someone may have properly ported it since I last tried some 4 years ago. >> >> the only thing severely lacking in OpenBSD is braille/speech support in the >> installation. I mean, seriously, its a text based console environment so it >> should be rather easy to do, but getting Theo to see that is like pulling >> Teeth! >> >> oh well, I will get a little sighted assistance here in the next few days >> and get an image setup under vmware. then I can get the post config done and >> actually be able to log into it. at that point, it should be relatively easy >> to add the ports tree and compile BrlTTY. >> >> >> >> meanwhile, back to the actual issue at hand…. Does anyone here remember >> openSuse? I spent more than a year trying to get them to make their product >> accessible. Their version of Linux had some nice features, but it wouldn't >> work with any screen readers and there were no packages for such either. I >> kept asking on their forums and eventually a developer chimed in and stated >> they had no interest in making their product accessible (claiming too much >> work, etc. etc.). That was 7 years ago and they are still not accessible. >> So, it isn't just fedora that has an issue with us. >> >> so, my question is this: why is Vinux now merging with SONAR (a Fedora based >> project) when Fedora is known to have little interest in our needs? I don't >> know about the rest of you, but it seems to me that we are being treated >> like the red headed step child here. >> >> -eric >> from the central office of the Technomage Guild, access technology division >> 6. >> >> On Mar 16, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Anders Holmberg wrote: >> >>> Hi! >>> I think you can build brltty for bsd. >>> But i am not sure. >>> And that requiers a braille display. >>> /A >>>> 16 mars 2017 kl. 21:57 skrev Eric Oyen <[email protected]>: >>>> >>>> and now we see the crux of the issue. its called a lack of proper >>>> attention to the problem. >>>> >>>> this is the biggest holdup to a lot of us blind folks, lack of coherent >>>> information. It's most telling in the local activities and events arena, >>>> but it shows up in technology as well. SOunds like it's time to spread the >>>> news on FB, swarm, snap chat, twitter, and any other social media outlet >>>> we can find. I might even point this article at Theo De Raadt of OpenBSD >>>> and see if he will actually consider it.. It would be nice to have a >>>> little support from some of the big names behind alternative Operating >>>> systems (like the BSD ecology or the Linux ecology). In fact, I will cc >>>> this missive to them. I doubt it will get any sort of useful response, but >>>> there is no harm in trying. >>>> >>>> btw, I was involved in trying to get a screen reader working in OpenBSD. >>>> It was speakeasy and it failed rather ignominiously. Since I am not a >>>> coder, I didn't exactly have the tools required to properly port it. what >>>> I ended up with only partially worked. Getting any help from the OpenBSD >>>> development corps was a lost cause right from the outset. Here it is over >>>> 4 years later and I have one since given up on ever getting some help from >>>> them. Perhaps it's time that a bunch of us bug Theo directly. if he gets >>>> enough emails on the subject, he might reconsider his position. His >>>> developer email is Theo de Raadt <[email protected]> >>>> >>>> anyway, it also sounds like we need to get everyone else in the community >>>> of the blind on board with this. that means hitting up the various >>>> lighthouse organizations, the NFB, the ACB, and the AFB as well as the >>>> world blind union. SInce I am also on a number of technology lists >>>> dedicated to blind users and technology (including almost all of the mac >>>> lists for the blind), it shouldn't be that hard to get this information >>>> out. perhaps partnering up with a few of the bigger blindness blogs >>>> wouldn't hurt either. >>>> >>>> -eric >>>> from the central office of the Technomage Guild, access technology >>>> division 6. >>>> >>>> On Mar 16, 2017, at 8:39 AM, John G Heim wrote: >>>> >>>>> It's funny you should say it's long overdue for there to be a blindness >>>>> related non-profit. I was part of a group who created exactly that >>>>> several years ago. After much discussion, we called ourselves The >>>>> International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists or IAVIT. >>>>> See www.iavit.org. >>>>> >>>>> After creating the non-profit, the real problem has been lack of interest >>>>> in using it's resources. We are incorporated as a 501c3 in the USA so we >>>>> can legally accept donations. We have a lawyer, a bank account, a paypal >>>>> account at the non-profit rates, donated server space, etc. The entire >>>>> infrastructure is there. We're just waiting for people to say, "Hey, I >>>>> could use this or that." >>>>> >>>>> On 03/16/2017 07:53 AM, Tony Baechler wrote: >>>>>> Be warned that my comments are most likely unpopular and controversial. >>>>>> See below. I'm not really interested in discussing this further, so >>>>>> don't expect a response. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/15/2017 3:30 AM, Kyle wrote: >>>>>>> Sonar merges with the Vinux Project. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, this is indeed unfortunate. First, it was never said what "common >>>>>> goals" were discussed. Granted I don't closely follow either project, >>>>>> but I'm disappointed and surprised to see Vinux heading towards a Fedora >>>>>> base. Red Hat has stated many, even numerous times, both in their >>>>>> inaction and in published docs on their sites, that they have no or very >>>>>> little interest in core accessibility. Yes, I realize this list is >>>>>> hosted by Red Hat, but honestly, anyone can host a mailing list >>>>>> nowadays, so to me, that doesn't count. Look at groups.io, Yahoo Groups, >>>>>> etc. Unlike Debian, Ubuntu and Slackware, to the best of my knowledge, >>>>>> Fedora has never made their installer accessible out of the box. I >>>>>> understand that now their installer talks with Orca, but I think that's >>>>>> more by accident than anything. Fedora does claim to have accessibility >>>>>> with the Gnome desktop though, but I don't think one can easily use >>>>>> Speakup and a text console to do the install. I could very well be wrong >>>>>> on this as I quit following Fedora years ago for the above reasons. >>>>>> There were projects like Speakup Modified (now dead I think), but they >>>>>> were community projects with no support from Fedora developers. >>>>>> Presumably, since Sonar is being folded in, they will use a distro other >>>>>> than Fedora. In the long term, I think Fedora would be a very bad idea >>>>>> for many reasons which I won't go into here. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think it's a great idea for there to be an a11y, or even >>>>>> blindness-specific nonprofit to be formed. I would even say it's very >>>>>> long overdue. If Apache, Mozilla, the Linux kernel and many others can >>>>>> do it, there is no reason why the blind community can't. I would even >>>>>> suggest moving this and other Linux lists to that organization. Yes, I >>>>>> realize that nonprofit and not-for-profit are different. I would push to >>>>>> make it a U.S based nonprofit. Start a Kickstarter or other fundraising >>>>>> compaign. I would donate to it. As much as Facebook doesn't support >>>>>> accessibility and generally is against the open source spirit, a page on >>>>>> there, Twitter, Tumblr, etc would be a very good idea. There needs to be >>>>>> a strong publicity team to write articles for both the blindness >>>>>> magazines (ACB Braille Forum, etc) and the mainstream Linux magazines >>>>>> like LWN. Amazingly, there has been almost no mention of Speakup in the >>>>>> mainstream Linux community at all. I think a fair number of companies >>>>>> and developers don't take us seriously because they don't know we exist >>>>>> and that blind people not only can and do use computers but in fact can >>>>>> and do use Linux on a regular basis. I just got an email from someone >>>>>> asking if I'm blind, how do I read and write? There is still a huge >>>>>> amount of ignorance out there. I realize this isn't strictly a Linux >>>>>> accessibility issue, but what leads to the next great breakthrough might >>>>>> be started by a developer seeing that blind people want an accessible >>>>>> desktop like everyone else. With an actual organization, KDE could be >>>>>> pushed for accessibility and developers from the organization could >>>>>> help. In other words, not only does it need to be a nonprofit a11y >>>>>> organization who works with other developers and develops software, but >>>>>> it also needs to be an advocacy and lobbyist group to demand big and >>>>>> small companies make their software accessible. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, I see a huge flaw in the merger. I think we're going down the >>>>>> same path as Windows screen readers. I'm not saying that Vinux would go >>>>>> commercial. What I'm saying is I fear they would end up like a big >>>>>> company who shall remain nameless. There are other screen readers out >>>>>> there such as NVDA, but very few people take them seriously because this >>>>>> big company has almost a monopoly. Granted, Linux is still far from >>>>>> having a huge share of the market, but if it should reach the 90% or >>>>>> even 50% point some day, it would be very unfortunate for rehab agencies >>>>>> and employers to force people to use Vinux because that's the only >>>>>> specialized distro for the blind. What would be much better is to work >>>>>> with the mainstream distros like Debian and Ubuntu to fix accessibility >>>>>> problems. Ubuntu is the most popular distro on the desktop. While >>>>>> accessibility is good, it has problems. When 16.04 came out, Orca was >>>>>> broken. I believe there are only a small number (no more than a few) >>>>>> people on the accessibility team. Debian could also desperately use >>>>>> help. It would look much better for the blind community if an >>>>>> organization donated their time and talents to auditing the packages in >>>>>> Debian and either fixing those with accessibility bugs which could >>>>>> easily be fixed or working with the upstream developers, providing >>>>>> patches and consulting with them to make their packages more accessible. >>>>>> To me, it seems like a huge waste of time to put a ton of energy into >>>>>> beating Fedora, Ubuntu or whatever distro into submission and slapping a >>>>>> "Vinux" or "Sonar" label on it when that same upstream distro with very >>>>>> few tweaks could be made that way out of the box. If you absolutely must >>>>>> modify packages, desktop settings, etc from the upstream defaults, such >>>>>> as for low vision users, create a Vinux repository instead or work with >>>>>> the Ubuntu community to create an official Ubuntu flavor called Ubuntu >>>>>> VI or something. There is already a Ubuntu MATE flavor, so why not work >>>>>> with them directly? While we're at it, what about Orca? I see only one >>>>>> main paid developer working on it. I'm sure she could use some help, not >>>>>> to mention thorough testing. Getting back to the Windows screen readers, >>>>>> I fear that blind people will not be given the choice of what distro >>>>>> they want and will be locked out of mainstream use because there is >>>>>> primarily one Vinux to rule them all. >>>>>> >>>>>> In conclusion, I will continue not recommending any specialized distro >>>>>> to my clients and other people. I think they are almost always a >>>>>> mistake. As we have seen yet again, it does lead to fragmentation and >>>>>> generally bad luck for all concerned. I couldn't get any of them (Sonar, >>>>>> Vinux or Talking Arch) to work reliably on my 2009 machine which runs XP >>>>>> great and has a very old, well-supported standard sound card. I had to >>>>>> invent my own live / rescue CD because there wasn't anything reliable. >>>>>> Hopefully the official Debian rescue CD will have reliable speech soon. >>>>>> Something like a Vinux rescue CD would be a great idea, but not a live >>>>>> system with an unreliable graphical desktop, horrible speech (ESpeak) >>>>>> and an unreliable infrastructure which crashes for no obvious reason >>>>>> while the mainstream Debian and Ubuntu distros don't. All of that said, >>>>>> I wish both teams the best of luck and I guess we'll see what happens. I >>>>>> would only add that if you haven't taken the plunge and actually tried >>>>>> Linux, give Ubuntu MATE a try. It's fast, works well and can be >>>>>> installed independently by the blind in about an hour. It does, >>>>>> unfortunately, still use ESpeak. Getting a commercial company to release >>>>>> a decent synth as open source would be a great thing for a nonprofit to >>>>>> do, even if it required buying the rights. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Blinux-list mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Blinux-list mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Blinux-list mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Blinux-list mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Blinux-list mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list _______________________________________________ Blinux-list mailing list [email protected] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
