If it doesn't align with privacy & security, what we know of physics,
what can be achieved by world class engineering, what will be funded by
market models or behaviors based upon payments & receipts, increase job
creation for blue collar workers, reduce power consumption, etc. then I
agree FiWi should, and likely will, fail.
Russia came very late to the industrial revolution because its leaders
were against technological progress, e.g. trains. That was a critical
juncture for them.
https://blogs.lt.vt.edu/jhoran/2014/08/31/transportation-and-industrialization/
It seems likely to me we are at our own critical juncture. I hope we get
it more or less right so that inclusive human societies, societies that
learn to care for others, built from our technologies, technologies
derived from the works & ideas of those who came before us, can benefit
long after we each depart as has been done with potable water supplies
for many (but not all.)
Bob
PS. I tend to ignore things that have no chance. I find it better to
spend my time & energy on things that do have some possibility of
impact. I find our lives are too short to do otherwise.
IMO, there is a very near zero chance of this ‘FiWi’ coming to
fruition. No one wants it. I don’t want it, I see nothing but
flaws, single points of failure, security issues, erosion of privacy
in homes and business, and general consumer mistrust of such a model
and well as consolidation and monopolization of internet access. I
will actively speak out against this, is bad in just about every way
you can talk about. I cannot find a single benefit it offers.
On Mar 28, 2023 at 3:31:40 PM, rjmcmahon <[email protected]>
wrote:
Agreed though, from a semiconductor perspective, 100K units over
ten+
years isn't going to drive a foundry to produce the parts required.
Then, a small staff makes the same decisions for all 100K premises
regardless of things like the ability to pay for differentiators as
they
have no differentiators (we all get Model T black.) These staffs are
also trying to predict the future without any real ability to affect
that future. It's worse than a tragedy of the commons because the
sunk
mistakes get magnified every passing year.
A FiWi architecture with pluggable components may have the
opportunity
to address these issues and do it in volume and at fair prices and
also
reduce climate impacts per taking in account capacity / (latency *
distance * power), by making that aspect field upgradeable.
Bob
https://sifinetworks.com/residential/cities/simi-valley-ca/
I'm due to get it to my area Q2 (or so). we're a suburb outside
LA,
but 100k+ people so not tiny.
David Lang
On Tue, 28 Mar 2023, rjmcmahon wrote:
There are municipal broadband projects. Most are in rural areas
partially funded by the federal government via the USDA. Glasgow
started a few decades ago. Similar to LUS in Lafayette, LA.
https://www.usda.gov/broadband
Rural areas get a lot of federal money for things, a la the farm
bill
which also pays for food stamps instituted as part of the New
Deal
after the Great Depression.
https://sustainableagriculture.net/our-work/campaigns/fbcampaign/what-is-the-farm-bill/
None of this is really relevant to the vast majority of our
urban
populations that get broadband from investor-owned companies.
These
companies don't receive federal subsidies though sometimes they
get
access to municipal revenue bonds when doing city
infrastructures.
Bob
https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-mitchell-79078b5 and
the like
are doing a pretty good job (given the circumstances) here in
the US.
At least, that’s my understanding of his work.
All the best,
Frank
Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 [2]
iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 [3]
Skype: casioa5302ca
[email protected]
On 28 March 2023 at 7:47:33 PM, rjmcmahon
([email protected])
wrote:
Interesting. I'm skeptical that our cities in the U.S. can get
this
(structural separation) right.
Pre-coaxial cable & contract carriage, the FCC licensed
spectrum to
the
major media companies and placed a news obligation on them for
these
OTA
rights. A society can't run a democracy well without quality
and
factual
information to the constituents. Sadly, contract carriage got
rid of
that news as a public service obligation as predicted by Eli
Noam.
http://www.columbia.edu/dlc/wp/citi/citinoam11.html Hence we
get
January
6th and an insurrection.
It takes a staff of 300 to produce 30 minutes of news three
times a
day.
The co-axial franchise agreements per each city traded this
obligation
for a community access channel and a small studio, and annual
franchise
fees. History has shown this is insufficient for a city to
provide
quality news to its citizens. Community access channels failed
miserably.
Another requirement was two cables so there would be
"competition"
in
the coaxial offerings. This rarely happened because of natural
monopoly
both in the last mile and in negotiating broadcast rights
(mostly
for
sports.) There is only one broadcast rights winner, e.g. NBC
for the
Olympics, and only one last mile winner. That's been proven
empirically
in the U.S.
Now cities are dependent on those franchise fees for their
budgets.
And
the cable cos rolled up to a national level. So it's mostly
the FCC
that
regulates all of this where they care more about Janet
Jackson's
breast
than providing accurate news to help a democracy function
well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVIII_halftime_show_controversy
It gets worse as people are moving to unicast networks for
their
"news."
But we're really not getting news at all, we're gravitating to
emotional
validations per our dysfunctions. Facebook et al happily
provide
this
because it sells more ads. And then the major equipment
providers
claim
they're doing great engineering because they can carry "AI
loads!!"
and
their stock goes up in value. This means ads & news feeds that
trigger
dopamine hits for addicts are driving the money flows. Which
is a
sad
theme for undereducated populations.
And ChatGPT is not the answer for our lack of education and a
public
obligation to support those educations, which includes
addiction
recovery programs, and the ability to think critically for
ourselves.
Bob
Here is an old (2014) post on Stockholm to my class
"textbook":
https://cis471.blogspot.com/2014/06/stockholm-19-years-of-municipal.html
[1]
Stockholm: 19 years of municipal broadband success [1]
The Stokab report should be required reading for all local
government
officials. Stockholm is one of the top Internet cities in the
worl...
cis471.blogspot.com [1] [1]
-------------------------
From: Starlink <[email protected]> on
behalf of
Sebastian Moeller via Starlink
<[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2023 2:11 PM
To: David Lang <[email protected]>
Cc: dan <[email protected]>; Frantisek Borsik
<[email protected]>; libreqos
<[email protected]>; Dave Taht via Starlink
<[email protected]>; rjmcmahon
<[email protected]>;
bloat <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Bloat] On fiber as critical
infrastructure
w/Comcast chat
Hi David,
On Mar 26, 2023, at 22:57, David Lang <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Mar 2023, Sebastian Moeller via Bloat wrote:
The point of the thread is that we still do not treat digital
communications infrastructure as life support critical.
Well, let's keep things in perspective, unlike power, water
(fresh and waste), and often gas, communications
infrastructure is
mostly not critical yet. But I agree that we are clearly on a
path in
that direction, so it is time to look at that from a different
perspective.
Personally, I am a big fan of putting the access network into
communal hands, as these guys already do a decent job with
other
critical infrastructure (see list above, plus roads) and I see
a PtP
fiber access network terminating in some CO-like locations a
viable
way to allow ISPs to compete in the internet service field all
the
while using the communally build access network for a few. IIRC
this
is how Amsterdam organized its FTTH roll-out. Just as POTS
wiring has
beed essentially unchanged for decades, I estimate that current
fiber
access lines would also last for decades requiring no active
component
changes in the field, making them candidates for communal
management.
(With all my love for communal ownership and maintenance, these
typically are not very nimble and hence best when we talk about
life
times of decades).
This is happening in some places (the town where I live is
doing
such a rollout), but the incumbant ISPs are fighting this and
in
many
states have gotten laws created that prohibit towns from
building
such
systems.
A resistance that in the current system is understandable*...
btw, my point is not wanting to get rid of ISPs, I really just
think
that the access network is more of a natural monopoly and if we
want
actual ISP competition, the access network is the wrong place
to
implement it... as it is unlikely that we will see multiple
ISPs
running independent fibers to all/most dwelling units... There
are
two
ways I see to address this structural problem:
a) require ISPs to rent the access links to their competitors
for
"reasonable" prices
b) as I proposed have some non-ISP entity build and maintain
the
access network
None of these is terribly attractive to current ISPs, but we
already
see how the economically more attractive PON approach throws a
spanner
into a), on a PON the competitors might get bitstream access,
but
will
not be able to "light up" the fiber any way they see fit (as
would be
possible in a PtP deployment, at least in theory). My
subjective
preference is b) as I mentioned before, as I think that would
offer a
level playing field for ISPs to compete doing what they do
best,
offer
internet access service while not pushing the cost of the
access
network build-out to all-fiber onto the ISPs. This would allow
a
fairer, less revenue driven approach to select which areas to
convert
to FTTH first....
However this is pretty much orthogonal to Bob's idea, as I
understand
it, as this subthread really is only about getting houses
hooked up
to
the internet and ignores his proposal how to do the in-house
network
design in a future-proof way...
Regards
Sebastian
*) I am not saying such resistance is nice or the right thing,
just
that I can see why it is happening.
David Lang
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Links:
------
[1]
https://cis471.blogspot.com/2014/06/stockholm-19-years-of-municipal.html
Links:
------
[1] http://cis471.blogspot.com
[2] tel:+421919416714
[3] tel:+420775230885
Links:
------
[1] http://cis471.blogspot.com
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