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Today's topics: * 5 new messages in 4 topics - digest - 2 messages, 2 authors http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/26eba3908762cbb6 * reservations and a small poem I wanna share - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/386fb2737a6aca20 * reservations - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/c782d6a1ddd8eaaa * Health is also a National Issue - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/6ae53b0365242f58 ============================================================================== TOPIC: 5 new messages in 4 topics - digest http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/26eba3908762cbb6 ============================================================================== == 1 of 2 == Date: Thurs, Jan 5 2006 5:29 am From: shashwat pandey Dear Madhu, Which type of social and economical imbalance are you talking about, this imbalance does not have any physical presence but a virtual presence, imposed by politicians, there is no imbalance in Indian society nether there had been any, the only imbalance is of money, rich people enjoy supremacy over poor people no matter which cast they belong to, moreover there is no need to go to history, history is written by winners, and only those point are presented which suits the current set of people in power, any guess what type of person Hitler would have been if he had won the second world war? in my life span of 25 yrs, I am yet to see any discrimination based on cast in society, yes I have seen discrimination based on money, based on education, based on muscle power and surprisingly based on looks, but never in terms of cast, there are no separate kitchen based on cast in any hostel in India currently, but there are separate food for those who can pay more and for those who can pay less, just point one discrimination based on cast.....there are none. This concept of cast based suppression was coined only in 1989, why not before? It is only because V.P Singh found a very good opportunity in dividing India based on cast and pumped the feeling of cast in Hindu society, before India was divided on religion, now India is divided on cast. It is pure politics nothing more. We as young generation must come forward and eliminate this evil from India, let people practice their religion government has nothing to do with religious feeling of any person, and in religion there is no discrimination on cast. Here I would like to through some light on cast system also but due to lack of time I will make it short. Just have a look at any organization, there is one CEO some directors, some managers then engineers/executives, what is wrong in this, everyone is doing what they can do best at any given time and they are differentiated based on what they do best, cast system is also a mirror image of current organizational setup... more details I will mail you later Examples you have pointed in your mail (US Russia etc), and superimposed it on Indian society, this itself is not correct, their social structure is different from ours moreover this clearly indicates that you accept that people from upper cast are better then others, I dont agree with this, everyone who can work hard, concentrate more and is calm can do anything, cast simply does not come into picture, what come into picture is in what environment you grow up, your thought are molded depended on what you see when you grow, and this is why I had stressed on regional based reservation system so that growth reached every corner of the country, every town should have a local idol, it will indicate that what he/she has achieved, is very much reachable. P.S : my intentions are just to present my point of view and hope this will be considered while we are making policy of the group. Regards Shashwat Pandey http://www.geocities.com/sha211_211 __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com == 2 of 2 == Date: Fri, Jan 6 2006 12:21 pm From: Harsha I would like to present further insight into reservations. we won't need and speak of it provided we have over capacity, be it in terms of no. of educational institutes or employment opportunitites. This is clear supply and demand, and finally when it started pinching the humble minority of OC (23-25% people), people go gaga on it. As far as I can dig deep, every person should have a right to study what he likes and finally abanduant opportunities should greet him when he wanted to make a living. (why none is concerned with ladies reservations, don't undermine, there is a day in offing when again we scream) . Just deprieving a person or a group is our incompetence, we should take advantage of human talent and let every other person contribute to the system, if you and me make it big, as is the case with NRIs or business class, we remain a third world country. As a nation, if every person gets second meal (30% of population don't get it) and has a roof on top, our happiness index must be shining. where is the problem and what is the solution? Agreed it is a problem, doing away with reservations may bring bliss to those who wanted, what happens to the huge majority of disgruntled people. Our nation won't be progressing, we see more and more problems, it's matter of time, they come and throw you out of your house and occupy it (after all they are majority people, in a democracy it's their say) .When it comes to solutions, a civil war is immediate respite, because it gives us a chance to build from scratch, unfortunately in a heterogeneous India, civil war doesn't ignite nationalism but hatred. The only vaible solution is to bring more opportunites, more educational institutes and everything more. Is it possible? yes, unless you don't scream when government introduces another 10 IITs, 100 NITS and 1000 universities. when we have this in place, reservations in education becomes redundant. Also every other person is ready to take up challenge and has his energies focussed. The big question is employment for the society. (I don't think any person aspires to be a labor, no body business). We should not be respecting patents and float with intellectual properties(IP) similar to China. (or like US going to war for their oil needs). no ethics here if we want to take our head high. (mindless thousands of IT engineers work in India bringing huge amounts of foriegn money, and when bush comes mext month, we make a deal for 2 F-16s and few boeings, gone every other dollar we brought into India through hardwork). Over-reliance on service sector (IT services is a fraction) is a cause of worry, we should be immediately focussing on reliable manufacturing sector (more jobs to masses), consumption driven, export oriented economy. certainly a lot to do with economics than with mindless debates. we want govt. to build infrastructure (at the same time, we want subsidised railway fares, gas and petrol, health and education, 9% interest of PF, hell we want everything free, mind that govt makes revenue through direct or indirect taxes from it's citizens). tell me where do you get 9% interest in the world on your PF savings, tell me where do you get 25% subsidy on your cooking gas. govt. lives only to the aspirations of it's people, it has no money to take new initiatives. if you and me make millions we may be happy in shortterm, but not our nation. we need sound economic policies and strigent law of land. even if it squeezes me we should bear it silently, otherwise our future generation spits on us for our skewed selfishness. (there is no nationalism at all when we speak, we are better off being self). I fear most people here are some kind of variants of rights group protecting their interests and not of a nation. I've serious doubts on vision 2020, if few become rich, if few make it big, we will not be going anywhere and will still be called a third world country, begging world whenever a national disater strikes helplessly. Harsha If you and me make millions, we may be happy, but not the entire nation. ============================================================================== > TOPIC: reservations > http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/c782d6a1ddd8eaaa > ============================================================================== > > == 1 of 1 == > Date: Wed, Jan 4 2006 11:15am > From: "Sidharth Shyamsukha" > > Dear Harsha, > > I would like to explain how reservations are linked with politics. > First a discimination is created, when people become more concerned > about there caste, politicians will offer them reservations for votes, > also would ecourage people to vote for people of their own caste. > As the original purpose of caste system, division of labour is no more > needed. > The concept itself can be scraped. > ============================================================================== > TOPIC: Reservation > http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/385ccd7f9c2b3c6 > ============================================================================== > > == 1 of 2 == > Date: Wed, Jan 4 2006 3:34am > From: shashwat pandey > > Dear Harsh > > The Point you are stressing is same as what i was > saying, people don't want reservation, those people > who have confidence in themselves don't want to be > discriminated on the basis of cast, what happens is > even if a deserving candidate from OBC or SC qualifies > say civil services credit in society is not given to > his hard work but to his cast (OOOOKK he is from > reserved category!! ). moreover putting non-competent > people in demanding position makes them loose whatever > confidence they have, i was in GTER for some work and > i sow one research scholar struggling hard, they are > developing engine (called Kavari) for LCA (Light > combat Aircraft) since last 25 yrs but till now even > design is not ready, problem is same here most of the > people in R&D did not had the competence level > required to complete the task hence it is pending, > again since HOD belongs to a certain cast he preferred > people from his community which resulted > dev null. > > This is why I suggest that if there is any need for > reservation at all, it should be given on the basis of > domicile(passing +2), in this manner, under-developed > areas will also be having successful people, who in > turn will help in overall development of India, no > state in India will be left unrepresented in developed > India map. > > Regards > > > Regards > Shashwat Pandey > http://www.geocities.com/sha211_211 > > == 2 of 2 == > Date: Wed, Jan 4 2006 1:41pm > From: "BharatMaata" > > Hi Harsha! > Reservations are important to clear out the social and economic > imbalances in a society. > India needs to move away from agroeconomy to industrial society. > This cannot happen unless upper castes(management communities) are > forced to invest in education and private enterpreneurship like > factories. > So, when Govt. squeezes out jobs and brings out the cheap labour from > farming, upper castes move out of villages into towns and thus the > economy starts rolling in a new direction! > > This has happened in USA during its civil war. It happened in Russia in > 1917. England and France long before that during their revolutions. > > For centuries, upper castes enjoyed the fruits of caste system and now > they cannot enjoy it due to reservations and hence all the whining. > > But either it is upper caste men or lower castemen, in today's India, > we need hardwork and aggression. > > Jai Hind!! > Madhu Rayala ============================================================================== TOPIC: reservations and a small poem I wanna share http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/386fb2737a6aca20 ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Thurs, Jan 5 2006 8:41 am From: Sandeep Chavan Dear Friends, I read Harsh and others comments of reservations. I am of the view that Reservations is just a symptom. The more we think, the more away we will move from the actual disease("Casteism"). We have wasted enough time and resources in naming and blaming SC/ST as meritless/useless or Brahmins as as Self-Centric[can even sell GOD to keep themselves on top] good for nothing people. All our focus should be moved away from symptom and nation wide full-blown attack needs to be made at curing the Disease["Casteism"]. To start with start discouraging/banning the Newpapers which allow Matrimonials based on Caste and things like that. Let's make the word Caste synonymous with Curse. Every speech/talk we give should start and end by saying that Caste is curse. Treat the disease and symptom will die its natural death. If you keep treating a symptom it may lead to other symptoms. Thanks a ton got your time. Here is a small poem I wrote, I wanna share: S C R E A M Yesterday I had a dream, It woke me up with a scream, I was in front of a Television screen, News was flowing in fast stream, Wow, China building magnetic trains, Japan's technologically advanced brains, USA's mighty military fighting in terrains, Swiss's wonderful beauty and Security, Hong Kongs hi-fi metro and charity, But I wonder why, may be due lack of clarity, India still talking about IT and BPO gains! Personally to me it sometimes pains, Seems like I am watching the same games, Year after year roads washed away by rains, Except Delhi no metro plans of mass transit trains, No security-cameras or hi-tech patrol, Traffic and accidents are out of control, Health Care seems to be totally sold, To top it all Forbes 2005 survey told, India's richest 40 persons net worths is more than 4 times that of china's richest 40 net worths, Sorry, Here I am lost again!!! I am hearing sounds of zillions mouse clicking, Is this just to keep MNCs stock ticking? Where are we heading? Arent we the privileged ones planning & executing, Nothing can be achieved just by talking, Let's stay awake and put our acts Straight! Before it is too late!! Thanx. --- BM_discussion group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > BM_discussion > http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion > [email protected] > > Today's topics: > > * reservations - 1 messages, 1 author __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ============================================================================== TOPIC: reservations http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/c782d6a1ddd8eaaa ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Thurs, Jan 5 2006 7:24 pm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jai Hind! reservations are as all of u know are suppopsed for the upliftment of the poor, i dont think reservations are bad. but the way they are implemented here is totally absurd. let me give u an example- a real one.i know a person who is batchmate also whos father is General Manager in BHEL. and still his son got a reserved seat in my college. wel i dont think so he needed reservation of any kind. the rules say that if a person gets reservation than his children sre not entitled to get reservation of any knid anywhere. according to me there is a need for a high level committee to be set up and review the policies. Also according to me the reservations play a vital role in bringing the destitutes to the main stream, the reservations should be done on the basis of ECONOMICAL CONDITION and not on the basis caste or religion as this very thing is against the constitution(technically). wel hope u all would like to add a comment on what i mentioned. bye Siddhartha Varshney ============================================================================== TOPIC: Health is also a National Issue http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/6ae53b0365242f58 ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Fri, Jan 6 2006 1:28 am From: "harsha" Do you know that average height of a nation is directly linked to the health index? I ever wonder why people in different countries have different life expectancies which is again linked to how progressed a nation is. ============================================================================== You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BM_discussion" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] or visit http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change the way you get mail from this group, visit: http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/subscribe To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ============================================================================== Google Groups: http://groups.google.com
