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Today's topics: * redirected from main grp for discussion - 2 messages, 2 authors http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/ef26a0cc57e95088 * rights of chapters - 2 messages, 2 authors http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/ca0447823c508749 * Corruption free India :- Just a dream - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/9f4d22df10562830 ============================================================================== TOPIC: redirected from main grp for discussion http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/ef26a0cc57e95088 ============================================================================== == 1 of 2 == Date: Wed, Jan 18 2006 4:56 am From: "Shashwat Pandey" Dear Rajan, The reasons pointed by you seems to be correct but my analysis is somewhat different, corruption is caused if your rulers are corrupt, as you have pointed out IAS and IPS selection criteria is similar to the one I had pointed, no officer becomes corrupt during his first posting, they degrade gradually, once they see that corruption is the system, all higher officiates are corrupt they too do the same. Higher officers in turn are corrupt because politicians are most corrupt. Who is the boss in Indian system? it is the politicians since they are corrupt everyone down the chain is more corrupt. If we can have good people ruling the country there cannot be any wrong thing happening in any country. I will elaborate more on this issue later, I am surprised to see your comment about "loving your motherland " I don't feel that it is only politicians who love their country, i am advocating for politics as carrier so that more people can contribute in national development, everyone is not as enthusiastic as you may want them to be. Not every person will renounce its family responsibility for joining politics as it is today. But this does not means that they do not "Love their motherland" Today only those people are in politics who either have a family background or those who are businessman, how many service class people you see in government today? If we want to change the face of India we must change those people who represent India. Regards Shashwat Pandey Ranjan Singh wrote: > Hi, > > When we talk about corruption we must be clear what we mean by it. It seems > one of the vaguest term under discussion. > If "80% houses in Indian capital are illegal" it definitely indicates that > something other than corruption is the root cause. > Either we assume that 80% of the population are corrupt or we assume that > corruption has become necessary for survival. > In case of former we are left with no option but we will have to live with > corruption and should stop abusing corrupts. > > It is one of the common misconceptions that corruption is the root cause > behind underdeveloped India. If you look closely, the opposite is also > equally true that "Underdeveloped India is root cause behind corruption" > So we need to look at corruption from a broader perspective. > Mass scale corruption is just an indicator. It is like fever which tells > that some illness is there but does not tell anything about the illness. To > know what that illness is, you need to investigate further. We should and we > must try to know why majority of population choose to be corrupt. > > Any effort to check corruption are futile specially when its a matter of > survival. Go and take the reins of governance from those who are inefficient > and fearful. Bring prosperity and corruption will evaporate like it never > existed. I am sure majority of people will choose not to be corrupt in a > prosperous India even without any checks. > > So, all our dreams ultimately converges to a prosperous India. > > "if GOI can make politics as a carrier for > indian youth India can be corruption free" > I don't know what led you to this naive assumption. > Our IAS and IPS officers are selected by a process more or less similar to > what you have suggested and all of them belong to youth. But, the history > tells that they are no less corrupt than our politicians. In fact, if our > IPS and IAS choose not to be corrupt than it will be very difficult for a > politician to be corrupt. > > I can't understand how loving your motherland could be a career, a > profession. Either you love your motherland (irrespective of your > profession) or not. You can't say that I love my India professionally. Will > you agree that Gandhi, Subhash and all others fought freedom struggle > because it was their profession otherwise they hadn't fought for it. > Politics is not a profession. But yes, we need young, energetic and > courageous task force of efficient professionals to reconstruct our India. > > With Regards, > Ranjan == 2 of 2 == Date: Wed, Jan 18 2006 9:46 pm From: "panda" 80%? More than 99%. For the survival to compromise to save time - we are engulfed by the big C. But the magnitude is not same with all. Hence the negetivity of the situation is not ultimate. According to me hardly 5% are herdcore corrupt. Rest of the 94+% is a mixture of people, some of whom are taking the advantage of the situation and rest are the victims who are compromising with corruption. If the system become forceful against C, then most of the people would resort to honesty by fear. So a mass movement is required to overhaul the system. Which may be done also by a political revolution. In a democracy the power of the 'vote' is a crucial arm in the hands of the common population. Police reform act (now running on obsolete 1861 act), Judicial reform etc are in the crucial discussion process. We have a good PM who is basically not a politician. Intellectual persons and the youth must take part or take interest in the process. The voice of unrest would scare many hardcore Cs. regards panda ============================================================================== TOPIC: rights of chapters http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/ca0447823c508749 ============================================================================== == 1 of 2 == Date: Wed, Jan 18 2006 7:03 pm From: "kanika" dear amit, What i meant by very very few rights is that central team should've enough rights to preserve integrity of a national framework but not too many to hinder the work of individual chapters. It is true that we r small in number and a big central team 'll b just a white elephant consuming all kind'a resources with no promising outcome but wat abt a small central team? There r many national problems like Sunami or that french warship coming to India that do not wait for u to grow in number but r important immediate concerns of the country,their harmeffect might b irreversible even by a large number once the time is lost.Sitting back on them just wondering whether we can do any thing effective is just not practically patriotic.At least we need to voice our opinion abt them if not more and we cannot do it effectively without a national stage.That sure is going to make some effect as well as serve to nationwide propagation and growth of organisation, i.e growth at local chapters. 1 chapter cannot make any effective contribution to such problems and asking any local chapter to moderate the efforts of all 'll b making a big burden no it. Central team 'll b able to work smarter on it b'cos it'll b able to concentrate on such problems and work on suggestions frm local chapters b'cos as u said local problems might not hold at national level ,without being bothered abt local concerns. We 'll able to make some immediate humble contribution to national emergencies that might not wait,and this is something that we r actually working for. Let us not mistake our aim of serving the nation for propagating the local chapters only. An overall growth can b achieved best in the juvenile state of organisation. == 2 of 2 == Date: Wed, Jan 18 2006 10:14 pm From: "amit hargude" dear kanika first of all, the problems which u have mentioned has nothing to do with the national teams which is being formed. the national team for which BM is up for, has a totally different scenario(plz see the organisational structure)... and if at all there is tsunami or any other natural calamities, there are lot of ways to help affected people, as one of our chapters donated huge amt. of money to kashmir earthquake victims, even i had donated money for it. this was done without the national team. the points u have mentioned above are way to far from our reach to take any action|( french warships etc...) but the matter of fact is we dont require a national team at this point of time, and is agreed upon by many of the active members as even they thought that its totally immaterial. regards amit h ============================================================================== TOPIC: Corruption free India :- Just a dream http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/9f4d22df10562830 ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Thurs, Jan 19 2006 3:00 pm From: Harsha do you think the LS is pack of illiterates, not really. only 3% are below matriculates or illiterates, roughly 60% are graduates, and another 18% are doctorates and masters, rest are matriculates. I'm pretty sure, their IQ is much better than you and mine together. It's nothing to do with their education background, but solely concerned to ethics. (the figures are for 14th LS) If you still think, youth or students as you proposed can change the face of India, you are seriously mistaken. Take the case of Praful K Mahanta or our very own Lalu yadav or CB Naidu, they all made into politics as very young student leaders. or even put it bluntly, all current politicians are once students and young people. corruption is a worldwide phenomenon, no country in the world is free from it's clutches. I'll be happy if you can get estimates of corruption to GDP, if it is less than a percentage point(most probably), I don't care at all. Corruption alone is not the problem or root cause to every problem. Corruption takes back seat if we have a vibrant and prospering economy. No alternate to it. Harsha > *From:* shashwat pandey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > *Subject:* > > > > Corruption Free India ? this question mark is quit > big, with 80% houses in Indian capital illegal, is > this possible? Millions of innocent people in jail for > no reason, is this possible? This list is endless... > but the answer to this question is YES. A big YES. to > realizes this dream we need just one constitutional > amendment, not like the one done recently (104th > amendment), if GOI can make politics as a carrier for > indian youth India can be corruption free, YES, India > can be a corruption free state > > What is the state of politics today? Today we see all > criminals want to join politics, we have seen so many > cold blooded murderers in Lok Sabha, and solution to > this is > > 1. Anyone fighting for L.S election must be a > graduate. > > 2. There should be a pre-test for everyone who is > filing nomination for L.S, this should be an online > test conducted at all the places together, and > questions should be regarding India (History of India, > Where India stands in world today etc) each applicant > must give a write-up about Indian foreign policy, > internal problems like naxel / terrorism problem etc > and IQ test. > > 3. These result should be made public and along with > candidates criminal record this info must be present > in the election booth, so that people before voting > must know whom are they voting for. Time given for > voters inside the polling booth should be more; > details of all the candidates must be made available > to voters at the polling stations itself. > > 4. Any professional who wants to take up politics as a > carries must be given salary by GOI. This will enable > people to work for the country along with enabling > them to fulfill their family responsibilities. > Otherwise there will not be any good brain in national > decision making domain, who are the people today in > highest decision making body some-one like Natwar > Singh was also a part of CCS. People like Lalu Yadav > talks about Indian railways going upto STM-64 > bandwidth, I doubt if there was anyone including Lalu > himself in L.S who might have understood what it > meant. > > Today we need technical / Managerial people in > politics, since these people have not been able to > bring about any change in India in the last 57 yrs > there is no scope that they can do it in coming 60 yrs > as well, whatever India has archived it is because of > its people, entrepreneurs like Naryanmurty, Dhirubhai > Ambani, Azim premji and like, defiantly not because of > Sonia Manio or Pramod Mahajan etc. > > > Only if politics is free from corruption India will be > free of corruption. And this is very much possible, if > young people who are passing out from colleges and > universities join main stream politics and bring about > a change in India. India can become a corruption free > state. > > > > Regards > Shashwat Pandey > http://www.geocities.com/sha211_211 ============================================================================== You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BM_discussion" group. To post to this group, send email to BM_discussion@googlegroups.com or visit http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change the way you get mail from this group, visit: http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/subscribe To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ============================================================================== Google Groups: http://groups.google.com
