BM_discussion http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion [email protected]
Today's topics: * क्या भारत को ब्रिटेन से खोई संपत्ति की वापस माँग करनी चाहिए? - 2 messages, 2 authors http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/ac3f7e93e3033fba * Fwd: [ime_y5] do read this.sppech by dr. APJ Abdul Kalam - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/7b057eb1fed2a1b8 * BM Needs a constitution - 3 messages, 2 authors http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/55e6a8ab8ea370a ============================================================================== TOPIC: क्या भारत को ब्रिटेन से खोई संपत्ति की वापस माँग करनी चाहिए? http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/ac3f7e93e3033fba ============================================================================== == 1 of 2 == Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 2:24 pm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] No need to beg for it. Indians are already taking up UK markets.....like Lakshmi Mittal.....one day when our country shall be glorious again I wish all of the Indians would return to their motherland with all the stolen wealth. == 2 of 2 == Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 3:04 am From: "Rohit Mishra" out of the question...just to add...not only UK markets...indians have been making a lot of impact on the global markets as well...now its just a matter of time before india dominates the rest of the world in global markets... On 3/25/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > No need to beg for it. > > Indians are already taking up UK markets.....like Lakshmi > Mittal.....one day when our country shall be glorious again I wish all > of the Indians would return to their motherland with all the stolen > wealth. > > > > -- keep kooooooooooooooooooooooooooool ============================================================================== TOPIC: Fwd: [ime_y5] do read this.sppech by dr. APJ Abdul Kalam http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/7b057eb1fed2a1b8 ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 10:06 am From: "Amritesh ." ============================================================================== TOPIC: BM Needs a constitution http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/55e6a8ab8ea370a ============================================================================== == 1 of 3 == Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 8:42 pm From: "Abhijit K" Dear Admin Team and All other BM Members, (This mail is being sent to moderators, main yahoo group, google group, policy team, bm-fulltime, orkut groups and bm-mumbai, bm-panvel and www.bharatudaymission.org/forum for better visibility. I'd request members to please discuss only on the googlegroup for better coordination). BM has grown quite big now, both in size and structure. (please see note-1 in the end for details). Its really pleasing to see that we are growing and people are joining us and the number and diversity in the activities is also going up. However the growth comes with its side effects. Over the last few months, since I joined BM, I've observed and I am sure most of the members have also observed that we are simultaneously suffering from issues that typically affect a coming up organization. I'm enlisting a few issues which we should expect us to suffer from (and many of them have actually happened with BM, no point in enlisting them, since this mail is about the issues in general and not about specific instances) * BM (so far) has been an organization of self-proclaimed intellectuals. Most of us are well educated people who believe that they are capable of creating a better India, however everyone feels that her way is better. Clashes of ideologies and differences are unavoidable. * We are all human beings, and likely to have egos. Ego clashes are going to happen between members. Though we aim to become egoless, as per our vision, lets accept the practical fact that it happens. * Not everyone joining BM is joining with self-less motives. We should expect people with selfish motives, people for whom politics and power is the only aim, joining us. * Its good to see that BM has a core unchangeable ideology defined now. ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bharatudaymission/files/Ideology/Core%20Ideology.mht ). However when people join BM, it is not practical to expect everyone agreeing on the core ideology and there may be differences. Many people join because they want a platform and they find BM's ideology and policies matching their priority goals in life. * People expect to get credit for their work and being praised (of course, not everyone, but I'm not commenting on what is good or bad, just stating facts that I think are obvious). They also expect this to get reflected in their roll in the organization getting better. There are also the other kind of people who want to get credit without doing work. * As protective parents do, founder members may tend to be protective about the organization (which is natural, almost everyone would be like that) and that may sometimes lead other members think that they are being sidelined or not being listened to or they don't have a say in the organization. * Seniority is a very subjective factor and lot of times senior members wish to have a bigger say. This may sometimes lead the comparatively junior members to feel neglected. * Procedures and rules may get defined from time to time, but they do get violated also. Lack of a mechanism to handle the issues arising out of it, will cause members to feel cheated. * For an online community like us, the role of moderators tends to become a superior one and as they say "power corrupts", moderators are also susceptible to make mistakes and try to become autocratic. * Typical of most of the online communities: nearly 80% members are totally inactive, rest 20% are online active and just around 10% doing active ground work. People involved in the actual ground work and giving their time generally expect to have a better say in the organizational matters. A thing particular to BM is the BM_Fulltime members. The case of these members is similar to senior members + people involved in ground work. * Lack of internal democracy and transparency (which we will not have, according to the core ideology defined, however IMO we've not yet fully implemented it) is not good for any organization for obvious reasons. * It is the local chapters which will be contributing most to the activity. Many of the chapters would expect certain kind of autonomy . * We have and 'll have members joining us, who have already been doing social work. We'd certainly like lot of such people to join us and contribute with higher responsibiilty roles. Comparisons between them and existing senior members will be made and when comparisons happen, issues arise. * As a result of conflicts and unreset, members leave the organization. To sum up, we'll certainly work all our lives and make India a great nation, but for that we need to ensure that we stay together and work together. The need for a constitution (for the lack of a better word) arises from all these (and maybe more) issues which we either have suffered from or may suffer in future. We have bodies that create a structure but we lack the rules that will govern these bodies. We need a set of guidelines which will govern all of us in our behaviour as a group and rules for discipline among us.We are not a Very big organization yet (and we're experiencing many of the problems even now), but we should be prepared to handle the size right now, so that we avoid the pitfalls and if at all there arise issues, we have mechanisms to handle them. If we are participating in a second freedom struggle of India, then BM is like the erstwhile Indian National congress which was a conglomeration of people with different ideologies, and in its early days it was nothing but a group of educated but motivated people. It had its own weaknesses, internal strife and often got partitioned and hence weakened lot of times. We should ensure that we don't get weakened that way. Another important advantage of having a constitution is that it gives the organization a formally defined shape. So far we have a structure (and bm_fulltime seems to be working on evolving a better structure), but it lacks a central formal definition, rules and framework for future growth. Constitution is a solution. I'm enlisting a few things which I think we need to handle in the constitution. I'm sure more issues will come up in due course of discussions. * Roles and responsibilities of all members should be decided. * Defining seniority and roles and privileges of senior members is needed. * Role of BM_Fulltime members in the overall organization needs to be talked about. * Responsibilities and powers of all central committees to be fixed. * The issue of judging one's contribution is subjective and needs careful handling. * Rules for actions of functionaries and defining their limitations is needed. * Internal democracy needs to be established by providing for (direct or indirect) elections of functionaries, defining right of votes and eligibility. * Mechanisms for handling unrest among members in a non-public-debate manner and resolving issues amicably should be there. * Disciplinary rules for all members and providing for disciplinary action in (hopefully rare) unavoidable circumstances. * Relationship between chapters and central team and responsibilities of chapters towards central team defined. * All this should be put up in a document to be made public. Since I believe in the right of founder members to have a bigger say in giving BM a shape that they would have dreamed of, I would like to appeal to them to please take the initiative, setup a constituent body and help BM becoming even stronger. I'm sure all members of BM will extend their full cooperation in helping ourselves get it done. Regards, Abhijit K, Moderator BM_Mumbai, Member: BM_PolicyResearch, BM_fulltime. Note 1: (These are all my estimates) Total estimated number of members of BM:3000+ We also have made lot of bodies and are trying to give a structure to the organization, as was decided in the national convention last year. Various central bodies of BM: policy team, finance team, ground work team, propagation team, admin/moderation team, website team. Each of these teams has members ranging in numbers from 3 to perhaps around 20 (on policy team). Also, various chapters have (supposedly) corresponding teams and they are all growing. The number of chapters of BM is also growing and we've estimated around 37+ chapters now. The chapters are not limited to metros and big cities but are coming up in smaller places also. -- Abhijit K www.geocities.com/abhijit1303 www.bharatudaymission.org == 2 of 3 == Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 12:18 pm From: "Vinay Khaitan" Dear Abhijit, I assure you that gopalji is never going to agree for a constitution. He would either in one way or the other way is going to show the problems with adopting to constitution. The reason is that ,in his own words, he doesn't trust anyone. That means, he doesn't want to be bound by constitution's framework. Second thing, about "unchangeable ideology", well uploading a file doesn't mean that its is validated. And defining any future unchageable is not possible, as people are supreme. Mass majority can always change any defined words. Gopal would push for this to never happen, but that fact of the world is fact. The persons who devote their life for any organisation would be always supreme! -Vinay Khaitan On 3/26/06, Abhijit K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Dear Admin Team and All other BM Members, > (This mail is being sent to moderators, main yahoo group, google group, > policy team, bm-fulltime, orkut groups and bm-mumbai, bm-panvel and > www.bharatudaymission.org/forum for better visibility. I'd request > members to please discuss only on the googlegroup for better > coordination). > > BM has grown quite big now, both in size and structure. (please see > note-1 in the end for details). Its really pleasing to see that we are > growing and people are joining us and the number and diversity in the > activities is also going up. However the growth comes with its side > effects. Over the last few months, since I joined BM, I've observed > and I am sure most of the members have also observed that we are > simultaneously suffering from issues that typically affect a coming up > organization. > > I'm enlisting a few issues which we should expect us to suffer from > (and many of them have actually happened with BM, no point in enlisting > them, since this mail is about the issues in general and not about > specific instances) > > * BM (so far) has been an organization of self-proclaimed > intellectuals. Most of us are well educated people who believe that > they are capable of creating a better India, however everyone feels > that her way is better. Clashes of ideologies and differences are > unavoidable. > > * We are all human beings, and likely to have egos. Ego clashes are > going to happen between members. Though we aim to become egoless, as > per our vision, lets accept the practical fact that it happens. > > * Not everyone joining BM is joining with self-less motives. We should > expect people with selfish motives, people for whom politics and power > is the only aim, joining us. > > * Its good to see that BM has a core unchangeable ideology defined now. > ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bharatudaymission/files/Ideology/Core%20Ideology.mht > ). However when people join BM, it is not practical to expect everyone > agreeing on the core ideology and there may be differences. Many > people join because they want a platform and they find BM's ideology > and policies matching their priority goals in life. > > * People expect to get credit for their work and being praised (of > course, not everyone, but I'm not commenting on what is good or bad, > just stating facts that I think are obvious). They also expect this to > get reflected in their roll in the organization getting better. There > are also the other kind of people who want to get credit without doing > work. > > * As protective parents do, founder members may tend to be protective > about the organization (which is natural, almost everyone would be > like that) and that may sometimes lead other members think that they > are being sidelined or not being listened to or they don't have a say > in the organization. > > * Seniority is a very subjective factor and lot of times senior members > wish to have a bigger say. This may sometimes lead the comparatively > junior members to feel neglected. > > * Procedures and rules may get defined from time to time, but they do > get violated also. Lack of a mechanism to handle the issues arising > out of it, will cause members to feel cheated. > > * For an online community like us, the role of moderators tends to > become a superior one and as they say "power corrupts", moderators are > also susceptible to make mistakes and try to become autocratic. > > * Typical of most of the online communities: nearly 80% members are > totally inactive, rest 20% are online active and just around 10% doing > active ground work. People involved in the actual ground work and > giving their time generally expect to have a better say in the > organizational matters. A thing particular to BM is the BM_Fulltime > members. The case of these members is similar to senior members + > people involved in ground work. > > * Lack of internal democracy and transparency (which we will not have, > according to the core ideology defined, however IMO we've not yet > fully implemented it) is not good for any organization for obvious > reasons. > > * It is the local chapters which will be contributing most to the > activity. Many of the chapters would expect certain kind of autonomy . > > * We have and 'll have members joining us, who have already been doing > social work. We'd certainly like lot of such people to join us and > contribute with higher responsibiilty roles. Comparisons between them > and existing senior members will be made and when comparisons happen, > issues arise. > > * As a result of conflicts and unreset, members leave the > organization. > > To sum up, we'll certainly work all our lives and make India a great > nation, but for that we need to ensure that we stay together and work > together. > > The need for a constitution (for the lack of a better word) arises from > all these (and maybe more) issues which we either have suffered from or > may suffer in future. We have bodies that create a structure but we > lack the rules that will govern these bodies. We need a set of > guidelines which will govern all of us in our behaviour as a group and > rules for discipline among us.We are not a Very big organization yet > (and we're experiencing many of the problems even now), but we should > be prepared to handle the size right now, so that we avoid the > pitfalls and if at all there arise issues, we have mechanisms to handle > them. > > If we are participating in a second freedom struggle of India, then BM > is like the erstwhile Indian National congress which was a > conglomeration of people with different ideologies, and in its early > days it was nothing but a group of educated but motivated people. It > had its own weaknesses, internal strife and often got partitioned and > hence weakened lot of times. We should ensure that we don't get > weakened that way. > > Another important advantage of having a constitution is that it gives > the organization a formally defined shape. So far we have a structure > (and bm_fulltime seems to be working on evolving a better structure), > but it lacks a central formal definition, rules and framework for > future growth. Constitution is a solution. > > I'm enlisting a few things which I think we need to handle in the > constitution. I'm sure more issues will come up in due course of > discussions. > * Roles and responsibilities of all members should be decided. > * Defining seniority and roles and privileges of senior members is > needed. > * Role of BM_Fulltime members in the overall organization needs to be > talked about. > * Responsibilities and powers of all central committees to be fixed. > * The issue of judging one's contribution is subjective and needs > careful handling. > * Rules for actions of functionaries and defining their limitations is > needed. > * Internal democracy needs to be established by providing for (direct > or indirect) elections of functionaries, defining right of votes and > eligibility. > * Mechanisms for handling unrest among members in a non-public-debate > manner and resolving issues amicably should be there. > * Disciplinary rules for all members and providing for disciplinary > action in (hopefully rare) unavoidable circumstances. > * Relationship between chapters and central team and responsibilities > of chapters towards central team defined. > * All this should be put up in a document to be made public. > > Since I believe in the right of founder members to have a bigger say in > giving BM a shape that they would have dreamed of, I would like to > appeal to them to please take the initiative, setup a constituent body > and help BM becoming even stronger. I'm sure all members of BM will > extend their full cooperation in helping ourselves get it done. > > Regards, > Abhijit K, > Moderator BM_Mumbai, Member: BM_PolicyResearch, BM_fulltime. > > Note 1: (These are all my estimates) Total estimated number of members > of BM:3000+ We also have made lot of bodies and are trying to give a > structure to the organization, as was decided in the national > convention last year. Various central bodies of BM: policy team, > finance team, ground work team, propagation team, admin/moderation > team, website team. Each of these teams has members ranging in numbers > from 3 to perhaps around 20 (on policy team). Also, various chapters > have (supposedly) corresponding teams and they are all growing. The > number of chapters of BM is also growing and we've estimated around 37+ > chapters now. The chapters are not limited to metros and big cities > but are coming up in smaller places also. > > -- > Abhijit K > www.geocities.com/abhijit1303 > www.bharatudaymission.org > > > > == 3 of 3 == Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 12:20 pm From: "Vinay Khaitan" sorry, that was supposed to be personal mail. ============================================================================== You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BM_discussion" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] or visit http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change the way you get mail from this group, visit: http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/subscribe To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ============================================================================== Google Groups: http://groups.google.com
