BM_discussion
http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion
[email protected]

Today's topics:

* सच्चा भारतोदय - 1 messages, 1 author
 
http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/7f86bb2cd4b7c00d
* BM Needs a constitution - 7 messages, 5 authors
 
http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/55e6a8ab8ea370a
* Starting a Media Channel for Constructive ,Innovative Ideas - 1 messages, 1 
author
 
http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/a12c1fcfd01326db
* Be positive about being indian - 1 messages, 1 author
 
http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/b637f11aa5e617ee

==============================================================================
TOPIC: सच्चा भारतोदय
http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/7f86bb2cd4b7c00d
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 11:53 am 
From: "रजनीश मंगला"  

मैं शायद दोबारा भारतोदय के
एजेंडा से कुछ हटकर बात करने
जा रहा हूँ। लेकिन मेरे
हिसाब से ये बात एक सच्चे
भारतोदय के लिए बहुत
महत्वपूर्ण है। हमें
भारतिय भाषाओं के लिए एक common
प्लैटफ़ार्म बनाना चाहिए
जहां लोग अपनी अपनी भाषा में
(युनिकोड में) कुछ लिख सकें,
एक दूसरे की भाषा सीखने का
प्रयत्न कर सकें जैसे तमिल,
तेलुगु, कन्नड़,
पंजाबी,गुजराती आदि आदि।
कुछ ब्लागर लोग अलग अलग
भाषाओं को लिखने के लिए
आनलाईन टूल बनाने में लगे
हैं। कुछ उदाहरण यहां हैं
http://bharatuday.blogspot.com/

कितना अच्छा होगा जब एक ही
फ़ोरम में लोग अलग अलग
भाषाओं में लिख रहे होंगे।
क्या इस उद्देशय के लिए अलग
से एक फ़ोरम बनाया जा सकता
है? क्या उसमें लोग अपनी
अपनी भाषाओं में योगदान
देंगे या देने की कोशिश
करेंगे? मुझे लगता है जब तक
भारत का कमज़ोर से कमज़ोर
व्यक्ति शिक्षित नहीं होता,
तब तक एक सच्चे भारतोदय का
तसव्वुर करना बेकार है। और
ये शिक्षा सिर्फ़ मात्रि
भाषा में हो सकती है। आईए हम
शुरूआत करें।




==============================================================================
TOPIC: BM Needs a constitution
http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/55e6a8ab8ea370a
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 7:07 am 
From: "Gopal Krishna"  

Dear friends,
I have taken a note of all issues raised by brother Abhijit Ji: mgmt grp has
defined a good organ. structure for chapter: in next 2-3 days, it will be on
our site and we have already uploaded a file on "Core Ideology" in files
section.

founder word confuses me : if it is about starting BM, of course the idea
comes to one person only and the vision was based on nationalism &
spirituality, so better we use "seniormost members" instead of "founders" as
such words r not needed now, when we have attracted many like-minded people.
For const., we will start the work with some seniormost members and central
team memebrs after due discussion on mgmt grp : it will be formally started
when many of us will be done with our semester (after first week of May) and
then taking help of all seniormost members (based on contribution and
"Active for how long" ) and central team members, we will start this work in
May.

So, let us move to "core work of policy team" and "strengthening chapters":
let us avoid all kind of personal remarks or indirect criticism, as they
will not help any of us or our Mission: the more personal remarks we make,
the more we will lose  our morals, because if we can't respect persons who
started such a Mission, then at least we should avoid negative personal
remarks on them on such a public forum like "BM_discussion grp".

Jai Hind
Gopal

On 3/25/06, Abhijit K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Dear Admin Team and All other BM Members,
> (This mail is being sent to moderators, main yahoo group, google group,
> policy team, bm-fulltime, orkut groups and bm-mumbai, bm-panvel and
> www.bharatudaymission.org/forum for better visibility. I'd request members
> to please discuss only on the googlegroup for better coordination).
>
> BM has grown quite big now, both in size and structure. (please see note-1
> in the end for  details). Its really pleasing to see that we are growingand 
> people are joining us and the number and  diversity in the activities is
> also going up. However the growth comes with its side effects. Over  the
> last few months, since I joined BM, I've observed and I am sure most of the
> members have also observed that we are simultaneously suffering from
> issues that typically affect a coming up  organization.
>
> I'm enlisting a few issues which we should expect us to suffer from (and
> many of them have actually happened with BM, no point in enlisting them,
> since this mail is about the issues in general and not about specific
> instances)
>
> * BM (so far) has been an organization of self-proclaimed intellectuals.
> Most of us are well educated  people who believe that they are capable of
> creating a better India,  however everyone feels that her way is better. 
> Clashes
> of ideologies and differences are unavoidable.
>
> * We are all human beings, and likely to have egos. Ego clashes are going
> to happen between members.  Though we aim to become egoless, as per our
> vision, lets accept the practical fact that it happens.
>
> * Not everyone joining BM is joining with self-less motives. We should
> expect people with selfish motives, people for whom politics and power is
> the only aim, joining us.
>
> * Its good to see that BM has a core unchangeable ideology defined now.  
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bharatudaymission/files/Ideology/Core%20Ideology.mht
> ). However when  people join BM, it is not practical to expect everyone
> agreeing on the core ideology and there may  be differences. Many people
> join because they want a platform and they find BM's ideology and  policies
> matching their priority goals in life.
>
> * People expect to get credit for their work and being praised (of course,
> not everyone, but I'm not  commenting on what is good or bad, just stating
> facts that I think are obvious). They also expect this to get reflected in
> their roll in the organization getting better. There are also the other kind
> of people who want to get credit without doing work.
>
> * As protective parents do, founder members may tend to be protective
> about the organization (which is  natural, almost everyone would be like
> that) and that may sometimes lead other members think that  they are being
> sidelined or not being listened to or they don't have a say in the
> organization.
>
> * Seniority is a very subjective factor and lot of times senior members
> wish to have a bigger say. This may  sometimes lead the comparatively junior
> members to feel neglected.
>
> * Procedures and rules may get defined from time to time, but they do get
> violated also. Lack of a  mechanism to handle the issues arising out of
> it, will cause members to feel cheated.
>
> * For an online community like us, the role of moderators tends to become
> a superior one and as they  say "power corrupts", moderators are also
> susceptible to make mistakes and try to become autocratic.
>
> * Typical of most of the online communities: nearly 80% members are
> totally inactive, rest 20% are online active and just around 10% doing
> active ground work. People involved in the actual ground work and giving
> their time generally expect to have a better say in the organizational
> matters. A thing particular to BM is the BM_Fulltime members. The case of
> these members is similar to senior members + people involved in ground work.
>
>
> * Lack of internal democracy and transparency (which we will not have,
> according to the core  ideology defined, however IMO we've not yet fully
> implemented it) is not good for any organization  for obvious reasons.
>
> * It is the local chapters which will be contributing most to the
> activity. Many of the chapters would expect certain kind of autonomy .
>
> * We have and 'll have members joining us, who have already been doing
> social work. We'd certainly like lot of such people to join us and
> contribute with higher responsibiilty roles. Comparisons between them and
> existing senior members will be made and when comparisons happen, issues
> arise.
>
> * As a result of  conflicts and unreset, members leave the organization.
>
> To sum up, we'll certainly work all our lives and make India a great
> nation, but for that we need to ensure that we stay together and work
> together.
>
> The need for a constitution (for the lack of a better word) arises from
> all these (and maybe more) issues which we either have suffered from or may
> suffer in future. We have bodies that create a structure but we lack the
> rules that will govern these bodies. We need a set of guidelines which
> will govern all of us in our behaviour as a group and rules for discipline
> among us.We are not a Very big organization yet (and we're experiencing
> many of the problems even now), but we should be prepared to handle the size
> right now, so that  we avoid the pitfalls and if at all there arise issues,
> we have mechanisms to handle them.
>
> If we are participating in a second freedom struggle of India, then BM is
> like the erstwhile Indian National congress which was a conglomeration of
> people with different ideologies, and in its early days it was nothing but a
> group of educated but motivated people. It had its own weaknesses, internal
> strife and often got partitioned and hence weakened lot of times. We should
> ensure that we don't get weakened that way.
>
> Another important advantage of having a constitution is that it gives the
> organization a formally defined shape. So far we have a structure (and
> bm_fulltime seems to be working on evolving a better structure), but it
> lacks a central formal definition, rules and framework for future growth.
> Constitution is a solution.
>
> I'm enlisting a few things which I think we need to handle in the
> constitution. I'm sure more issues will come up in due course of
> discussions.
> * Roles and responsibilities of all members should be decided.
> * Defining seniority and roles and privileges of senior members is needed.
>
> * Role of BM_Fulltime members in the overall organization needs to be
> talked about.
> * Responsibilities and powers of all central committees to be fixed.
> * The issue of judging one's contribution is subjective and needs careful
> handling.
> * Rules for actions of functionaries and defining their limitations is
> needed.
> * Internal democracy needs to be established by providing for (direct or
> indirect) elections of functionaries, defining right of votes and
> eligibility.
> * Mechanisms for handling unrest among members in a non-public-debate
> manner and resolving issues amicably should be there.
> * Disciplinary rules for all members and providing for disciplinary action
> in (hopefully rare) unavoidable circumstances.
> * Relationship between chapters and central team and responsibilities of
> chapters towards central team defined.
> * All this should be put up in a document to be made public.
>
> Since I believe in the right of founder members to have a bigger say in
> giving BM a shape that they would have dreamed of,  I would like to appeal
> to them to please take the initiative, setup a constituent body and help BM
> becoming even stronger. I'm sure all members of BM will extend their full
> cooperation in helping ourselves get it done.
>
> Regards,
> Abhijit K,
> Moderator BM_Mumbai, Member: BM_PolicyResearch, BM_fulltime.
>
> Note 1: (These are all my estimates) Total estimated number of members of
> BM:3000+ We also have made lot of bodies and are trying to give a structure
> to the organization, as was  decided in the national convention last year.
> Various central bodies of BM: policy team, finance team, ground work team,
> propagation team,  admin/moderation team, website team. Each of these teams
> has members ranging in numbers from 3 to  perhaps around 20 (on policy
> team). Also, various chapters have (supposedly) corresponding teams and
> they are all growing. The number of chapters of BM is also growing and we've
> estimated around 37+ chapters now. The  chapters are not limited to metros
> and big cities but are coming up in smaller places also.
>
> --
> Abhijit K
> www.geocities.com/abhijit1303
> www.bharatudaymission.org
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>    -  Visit your group 
> "BM_PolicyResearch<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BM_PolicyResearch>"
>    on the web.
>
>    -  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     [EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>    -  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>    Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>



--
With love,
Gopal Krishna
4th yr B. Tech Computer Science
IIT Kanpur

'Those who condemn politics to be the last resort of a scoundrel are bound
to be ruled by scoundrels' - Plato

If you agree with above quote, then be a part of second freedom struggle of
India, Bharat Uday Mission, at http://bharatudaymission.org

"We have only one passion,
The rise of a Great Nation."



== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 6:42 pm 
From: "Abhijit K"  

I strongl protest against the personal remarks made on a public forum.
However I'd like to comment on the issues that have been raised.

An organization has to have some core ideology which defines it. Also,
an organization is started by few people who have some ideas on their
minds. When other people are joining them, it is understood that the
people who are joining later, share the beliefs and goals of the
founders atleast in the spirit.  If one does not agree, there is always
a separate free-path to follow. However at some point of time, when lot
of people have contributed towards the organization, the distinction
between founders and senior members vanishes as it is very subjective
to judge contributions. Hence any ideological definitions are supposed
to be made by the bigger group. Yes, it is again subjective to define
the bigger group, but once defined it should be followed and the
definitions should be largly acceptable enough not to hurt people.
Going for mass appeals and opinion calls on each and every issue
time-consuming and not always needed.

I think we are on that mode where the senior members should take lead
and define the rules, which will govern a bigger organization that BM
is now. Thereafter the rules would be above all, and all contributing
members in the organization would be supreme to modify the rules for
all. Thus, we also need to define the contributing members. Since I
trust all the senior members who have done a wonderful work of
sustaining and growing BM so far, I am sure they'll take into
consideration the opinions of ALL willing members of BM before making
the final rules, restrict themselves also in their privileges,
establish internal democracy and transparency; and I also hope that the
whole **process** of constitution making will be given sufficient
public display, for the sake of transparency which is one of our core
values.

I personally accept the unchangeable ideology and support the notion of
having such a document. The way it was done, may have left scope for
cribs. However for the lack of a constitution, I see no point in
raising issues.

Ofcourse, contributing members in the organization will be supreme,
after the constitution is made :).

Regards,
Abhijit K




== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 6:54 pm 
From: "Abhijit K"  

Dear Gopal and all,

thanks for taking the initiative and note of all the issues raised.
i've been using the word "founder members" for the lack of knowledge of
history of BM in its early days. i did not mean by any means any
disrespect to the senior members who have been with BM since its early
days. my apologies if i hurt the feelings of anyone.

i would certainly agree with you that  "all seniormost members (based
on contribution and "Active for how long" ) and central team members"
should be working on it. in that context i've a small request to please
make it public - the criterion for defining the members of the
constituent body (at appropriate time) for the sake of transparency.
i'm sure, you'd have otherwise also done that :).  i would also suggest
to include in addition,  representatives of willing chapters on that
body.

all the best to the members for their exams. 
regards,
abhijit k




== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 27 2006 8:38 am 
From: "Vinay Khaitan"  

Dear Friends,

even after apologizing for the mishap happened, because of incorrect press
of mouse button, because of which a personal mail had gone in public forum,
it looks like I need to do it again directly.

So here is the mail of apology to Gopalji.

On 3/27/06, Abhijit K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Gopal and all,
>
> thanks for taking the initiative and note of all the issues raised.
> i've been using the word "founder members" for the lack of knowledge of
> history of BM in its early days. i did not mean by any means any
> disrespect to the senior members who have been with BM since its early
> days. my apologies if i hurt the feelings of anyone.
>
> i would certainly agree with you that  "all seniormost members (based
> on contribution and "Active for how long" ) and central team members"
> should be working on it. in that context i've a small request to please
> make it public - the criterion for defining the members of the
> constituent body (at appropriate time) for the sake of transparency.
> i'm sure, you'd have otherwise also done that :).  i would also suggest
> to include in addition,  representatives of willing chapters on that
> body.
>
> all the best to the members for their exams.
> regards,
> abhijit k
>
>
>
>




== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 10:23 pm 
From: "Vijay Mohan. D"  

Dear Comrades,

This is basically the growing pains which are felt by any young
organization. Firstly, I would like to say here that, we have to attempt
this problem in a very professional manner.

By that what I mean is this: the Organization is more important than
specific beliefs or opinions, and although I myself strongly believe in
Individualism w.r.t a positive way of being a leader, I feel that basically
this is what we should do.

Everyone close their eyes and think about what they want BUM to accomplish
and how it can be done. Remember in advance that we are a young organization
and although the young have boundless energy, they are yet to learn patience
because they want to run forward quickly, without being hampered by anyone
or anything. So, when we have a group of young people like this, there are
bound to be tensions.

To resolve them, let us teach ourselves to be patient and to listen more.
When one person is angry, let everyone else listen to him fully, and
eventually we all get our word in.

Now, entities like "Organizations" are basically abstractions, in that they
do not exist as a physical entity, but they are nevertheless present.
Because people make up a group, and people differ in their characteristics,
always there will be some people who are ahead, some who are seniors, some
who are tirelessly working behind the lines, and some who feel that they are
neglected.

"Do the work, and think not about the reward"

If you are good, and you do good work, never think that it has gone
unnoticed. You will never be forgotten. Everywhere in life, whatever you do,
there will always be people who want to get more attention. We can define
principles, and we can tell people to follow them, but eventually, people
remain people and they have their own fallings.

So what should you do when you are faced with this situation?

1. You are the senior person, you feel threatened by the junior person who
is smarter than you.

        - If you feel threatened, accept it.
      - After accepting your mistake to yourself, overcome it
      - Then, closing your fist tightly, and taking a deep breath, do the
right thing, and encourage him further.

Never feel threatened by brilliance, hard work or abilities of the new
comers or juniors. Feel proud that you are able to control your desires and
failings and able to do the right thing.

"Attempt to reach the sky, and someday you will definitely reach it"

2. If you are the junior person, and you feel that your senior is not
listening to you:

        - Accept that you feel hurt
      - Close your eyes and understand that you are doing this for your
country, and everybody counts here
      - Keep doing the same thing, and never lose enthusiasm

Above all, remember that nobody however powerful can keep a good man down.
So, continue doing the thing you have to do, and eventually, you will get
the attention you deserve.

People have their failings, but everybody can be a hero, when he gives up,
and sacrifices his ego, so that someone else is not hurt, someone else feels
like part of the team, and someone else feels wanted.

"Tighten your fists, close your eyes, and continue doing the right thing, in
an objective manner"

Regards,
Vijay

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Abhijit K
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 11:43 AM
To: BM_discussion
Subject: [BM_discussion] Re: BM Needs a constitution


I strongl protest against the personal remarks made on a public forum.
However I'd like to comment on the issues that have been raised.

An organization has to have some core ideology which defines it. Also,
an organization is started by few people who have some ideas on their
minds. When other people are joining them, it is understood that the
people who are joining later, share the beliefs and goals of the
founders atleast in the spirit.  If one does not agree, there is always
a separate free-path to follow. However at some point of time, when lot
of people have contributed towards the organization, the distinction
between founders and senior members vanishes as it is very subjective
to judge contributions. Hence any ideological definitions are supposed
to be made by the bigger group. Yes, it is again subjective to define
the bigger group, but once defined it should be followed and the
definitions should be largly acceptable enough not to hurt people.
Going for mass appeals and opinion calls on each and every issue
time-consuming and not always needed.

I think we are on that mode where the senior members should take lead
and define the rules, which will govern a bigger organization that BM
is now. Thereafter the rules would be above all, and all contributing
members in the organization would be supreme to modify the rules for
all. Thus, we also need to define the contributing members. Since I
trust all the senior members who have done a wonderful work of
sustaining and growing BM so far, I am sure they'll take into
consideration the opinions of ALL willing members of BM before making
the final rules, restrict themselves also in their privileges,
establish internal democracy and transparency; and I also hope that the
whole **process** of constitution making will be given sufficient
public display, for the sake of transparency which is one of our core
values.

I personally accept the unchangeable ideology and support the notion of
having such a document. The way it was done, may have left scope for
cribs. However for the lack of a constitution, I see no point in
raising issues.

Ofcourse, contributing members in the organization will be supreme,
after the constitution is made :).

Regards,
Abhijit K






== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 27 2006 11:24 am 
From: satya  

Cool Discussion.
Really good points raised by Abhijit. I have given a mail with similar
shades about the problems when the organization becomes big.
Now really is the time for policy making members to define all the
rules,regulations conditions for the organization. LETS MAKE THIS A
PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION.
Now is hight time to allocate all the members with their responsibilities.
Right now I feel the structure is still not good to support the growth.
And most importantly even though the peopl joining have high idealogies are
ture in spirit of serving the nation, their might be ppl thinking otherwise.
Lets decide upon a mechanism so that power will never make ppl arrogant and
corrupt.

JaiHind
Satya

On 3/27/06, Vijay Mohan. D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Comrades,
>
> This is basically the growing pains which are felt by any young
> organization. Firstly, I would like to say here that, we have to attempt
> this problem in a very professional manner.
>
> By that what I mean is this: the Organization is more important than
> specific beliefs or opinions, and although I myself strongly believe in
> Individualism w.r.t a positive way of being a leader, I feel that
> basically
> this is what we should do.
>
> Everyone close their eyes and think about what they want BUM to accomplish
> and how it can be done. Remember in advance that we are a young
> organization
> and although the young have boundless energy, they are yet to learn
> patience
> because they want to run forward quickly, without being hampered by anyone
> or anything. So, when we have a group of young people like this, there are
> bound to be tensions.
>
> To resolve them, let us teach ourselves to be patient and to listen more.
> When one person is angry, let everyone else listen to him fully, and
> eventually we all get our word in.
>
> Now, entities like "Organizations" are basically abstractions, in that
> they
> do not exist as a physical entity, but they are nevertheless present.
> Because people make up a group, and people differ in their
> characteristics,
> always there will be some people who are ahead, some who are seniors, some
> who are tirelessly working behind the lines, and some who feel that they
> are
> neglected.
>
> "Do the work, and think not about the reward"
>
> If you are good, and you do good work, never think that it has gone
> unnoticed. You will never be forgotten. Everywhere in life, whatever you
> do,
> there will always be people who want to get more attention. We can define
> principles, and we can tell people to follow them, but eventually, people
> remain people and they have their own fallings.
>
> So what should you do when you are faced with this situation?
>
> 1. You are the senior person, you feel threatened by the junior person who
> is smarter than you.
>
>         - If you feel threatened, accept it.
>       - After accepting your mistake to yourself, overcome it
>       - Then, closing your fist tightly, and taking a deep breath, do the
> right thing, and encourage him further.
>
> Never feel threatened by brilliance, hard work or abilities of the new
> comers or juniors. Feel proud that you are able to control your desires
> and
> failings and able to do the right thing.
>
> "Attempt to reach the sky, and someday you will definitely reach it"
>
> 2. If you are the junior person, and you feel that your senior is not
> listening to you:
>
>         - Accept that you feel hurt
>       - Close your eyes and understand that you are doing this for your
> country, and everybody counts here
>       - Keep doing the same thing, and never lose enthusiasm
>
> Above all, remember that nobody however powerful can keep a good man down.
> So, continue doing the thing you have to do, and eventually, you will get
> the attention you deserve.
>
> People have their failings, but everybody can be a hero, when he gives up,
> and sacrifices his ego, so that someone else is not hurt, someone else
> feels
> like part of the team, and someone else feels wanted.
>
> "Tighten your fists, close your eyes, and continue doing the right thing,
> in
> an objective manner"
>
> Regards,
> Vijay
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Abhijit K
> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 11:43 AM
> To: BM_discussion
> Subject: [BM_discussion] Re: BM Needs a constitution
>
>
> I strongl protest against the personal remarks made on a public forum.
> However I'd like to comment on the issues that have been raised.
>
> An organization has to have some core ideology which defines it. Also,
> an organization is started by few people who have some ideas on their
> minds. When other people are joining them, it is understood that the
> people who are joining later, share the beliefs and goals of the
> founders atleast in the spirit.  If one does not agree, there is always
> a separate free-path to follow. However at some point of time, when lot
> of people have contributed towards the organization, the distinction
> between founders and senior members vanishes as it is very subjective
> to judge contributions. Hence any ideological definitions are supposed
> to be made by the bigger group. Yes, it is again subjective to define
> the bigger group, but once defined it should be followed and the
> definitions should be largly acceptable enough not to hurt people.
> Going for mass appeals and opinion calls on each and every issue
> time-consuming and not always needed.
>
> I think we are on that mode where the senior members should take lead
> and define the rules, which will govern a bigger organization that BM
> is now. Thereafter the rules would be above all, and all contributing
> members in the organization would be supreme to modify the rules for
> all. Thus, we also need to define the contributing members. Since I
> trust all the senior members who have done a wonderful work of
> sustaining and growing BM so far, I am sure they'll take into
> consideration the opinions of ALL willing members of BM before making
> the final rules, restrict themselves also in their privileges,
> establish internal democracy and transparency; and I also hope that the
> whole **process** of constitution making will be given sufficient
> public display, for the sake of transparency which is one of our core
> values.
>
> I personally accept the unchangeable ideology and support the notion of
> having such a document. The way it was done, may have left scope for
> cribs. However for the lack of a constitution, I see no point in
> raising issues.
>
> Ofcourse, contributing members in the organization will be supreme,
> after the constitution is made :).
>
> Regards,
> Abhijit K
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
"|| bRaHmAiVa sAtYaM ||"




== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 12:07 am 
From: "Abhijit K"  

Dear Admin Team and All other BM Members,
(This mail is being sent to moderators, main yahoo group, google group,
policy team, bm-fulltime, orkut groups and bm-mumbai, bm-panvel and
www.bharatudaymission.org/forum for better visibility. I'd request members
to please discuss only on the googlegroup for better coordination).

BM has grown quite big now, both in size and structure. (please see note-1
in the end for  details). Its really pleasing to see that we are growing and
people are joining us and the number and  diversity in the activities is
also going up. However the growth comes with its side effects. Over  the
last few months, since I joined BM, I've observed and I am sure most of the
members have also observed that we are simultaneously suffering from issues
that typically affect a coming up  organization.

I'm enlisting a few issues which we should expect us to suffer from (and
many of them have actually happened with BM, no point in enlisting them,
since this mail is about the issues in general and not about specific
instances)

* BM (so far) has been an organization of self-proclaimed intellectuals.
Most of us are well educated  people who believe that they are capable of
creating a better India,  however everyone feels that her way is
better. Clashes
of ideologies and differences are unavoidable.

* We are all human beings, and likely to have egos. Ego clashes are going to
happen between members.  Though we aim to become egoless, as per our vision,
lets accept the practical fact that it happens.

* Not everyone joining BM is joining with self-less motives. We should
expect people with selfish motives, people for whom politics and power is
the only aim, joining us.

* Its good to see that BM has a core unchangeable ideology defined
now.  
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bharatudaymission/files/Ideology/Core%20Ideology.mht
). However when  people join BM, it is not practical to expect everyone
agreeing on the core ideology and there may  be differences. Many people
join because they want a platform and they find BM's ideology and  policies
matching their priority goals in life.

* People expect to get credit for their work and being praised (of course,
not everyone, but I'm not  commenting on what is good or bad, just stating
facts that I think are obvious). They also expect this to get reflected in
their roll in the organization getting better. There are also the other kind
of people who want to get credit without doing work.

* As protective parents do, founder members may tend to be protective about
the organization (which is  natural, almost everyone would be like that) and
that may sometimes lead other members think that  they are being
sidelinedor not being listened to or they don't have a say in the
organization.

* Seniority is a very subjective factor and lot of times senior members wish
to have a bigger say. This may  sometimes lead the comparatively junior
members to feel neglected.

* Procedures and rules may get defined from time to time, but they do get
violated also. Lack of a  mechanism to handle the issues arising out of it,
will cause members to feel cheated.

* For an online community like us, the role of moderators tends to become a
superior one and as they  say "power corrupts", moderators are also
susceptible to make mistakes and try to become autocratic.

* Typical of most of the online communities: nearly 80% members are totally
inactive, rest 20% are online active and just around 10% doing active ground
work. People involved in the actual ground work and giving their time
generally expect to have a better say in the organizational matters. A thing
particular to BM is the BM_Fulltime members. The case of these members is
similar to senior members + people involved in ground work.

* Lack of internal democracy and transparency (which we will not have,
according to the core  ideology defined, however IMO we've not yet fully
implemented it) is not good for any organization  for obvious reasons.

* It is the local chapters which will be contributing most to the activity.
Many of the chapters would expect certain kind of autonomy.

* We have and 'll have members joining us, who have already been doing
social work. We'd certainly like lot of such people to join us and
contribute with higher responsibiilty roles. Comparisons between them and
existing senior members will be made and when comparisons happen, issues
arise.

* As a result of  conflicts and unreset, members leave the organization.

To sum up, we'll certainly work all our lives and make India a great nation,
but for that we need to ensure that we stay together and work together.

The need for a constitution (for the lack of a better word) arises from all
these (and maybe more) issues which we either have suffered from or may
suffer in future. We have bodies that create a structure but we lack the
rules that will govern these bodies. We need a set of guidelines which will
govern all of us in our behaviour as a group and rules for discipline among
us.We are not a Very big organization yet (and we're experiencing many of
the problems even now), but we should be prepared to handle the size right
now, so that  we avoid the pitfalls and if at all there arise issues, we
have mechanisms to handle them.

If we are participating in a second freedom struggle of India, then BM is
like the erstwhile Indian National congress which was a conglomeration of
people with different ideologies, and in its early days it was nothing but a
group of educated but motivated people. It had its own weaknesses, internal
strife and often got partitioned and hence weakened lot of times. We should
ensure that we don't get weakened that way.

Another important advantage of having a constitution is that it gives the
organization a formally defined shape. So far we have a structure (and
bm_fulltime seems to be working on evolving a better structure), but it
lacks a central formal definition, rules and framework for future growth.
Constitution is a solution.

I'm enlisting a few things which I think we need to handle in the
constitution. I'm sure more issues will come up in due course of
discussions.
* Roles and responsibilities of all members should be decided.
* Defining seniority and roles and privileges of senior members is needed.
* Role of BM_Fulltime members in the overall organization needs to be talked
about.
* Responsibilities and powers of all central committees to be fixed.
* The issue of judging one's contribution is subjective and needs careful
handling.
* Rules for actions of functionaries and defining their limitations is
needed.
* Internal democracy needs to be established by providing for (direct or
indirect) elections of functionaries, defining right of votes and
eligibility.
* Mechanisms for handling unrest among members in a non-public-debate manner
and resolving issues amicably should be there.
* Disciplinary rules for all members and providing for disciplinary action
in (hopefully rare) unavoidable circumstances.
* Relationship between chapters and central team and responsibilities of
chapters towards central team defined.
* All this should be put up in a document to be made public.

Since I believe in the right of founder members to have a bigger say in
giving BM a shape that they would have dreamed of,  I would like to appeal
to them to please take the initiative, setup a constituent body and help BM
becoming even stronger. I'm sure all members of BM will extend their full
cooperation in helping ourselves get it done.

Regards,
Abhijit K,
Moderator BM_Mumbai, Member: BM_PolicyResearch, BM_fulltime.

Note 1: (These are all my estimates) Total estimated number of members of
BM:3000+ We also have made lot of bodies and are trying to give a structure
to the organization, as was  decided in the national convention last year.
Various central bodies of BM: policy team, finance team, ground work team,
propagation team,  admin/moderation team, website team. Each of these teams
has members ranging in numbers from 3 to  perhaps around 20 (on policy
team). Also, various chapters have (supposedly) corresponding teams and
they are all growing. The number of chapters of BM is also growing and we've
estimated around 37+ chapters now. The  chapters are not limited to metros
and big cities but are coming up in smaller places also.

--
Abhijit K
www.geocities.com/abhijit1303
www.bharatudaymission.org





==============================================================================
TOPIC: Starting a Media Channel for Constructive ,Innovative Ideas
http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/a12c1fcfd01326db
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 27 2006 8:59 am 
From: quixton don  

Dear Friends,
   
  In one of recent news i read the pain shown by our President of India that 
what role our media is playing and how it is affecting our society when we get 
up in the morning we have one or the other bad news in the newspaper covering 
the front page almost every day same thing is happening every day on various 
media channels they are exposing one or the other issues there are some good 
things and well some bad things i do not want to go deep into this discussion 
but i feel it shows our basic mentality how viewers are percieved by these 
media people .
   
  Recently i was sitting with a very prominent media personality and discussing 
with him why media is projecting negative news as the most important also he 
told me that it is the demand of todays people so u can not help it whatever 
people demand we make similar programes.
   
  With this in mind we a group of friends are interested in setting up a media 
channel which will make & telecast programes related to the positive news 
,creative ideas ,innovative thoughts with entrepeneurial bent of mind and are 
looking for people who can partner with us as volunteers , associates , 
management people ,subscribers ,investors as well as programers apart from 
content providers and research team .
   
  We also plan to raise various issues and make programes on thse issues to 
provide to various other broadcasters like BBC , CNN , STAR ,NDTV, IBN , JANMAT 
Etc
   
  Let me make one thing clear to u that we are not going to own this media 
channel it will be run by a professional team we are just going to be the 
initial planners for this and then it will be handed over to the team.
   
  We have set up a website which is very vague at this moment but shortly will 
be giving it a more professional look 
   
  www.globalmedia.in
   
  Kindly do write to  us as how can u and would u like to be a part of it at  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] .
   
  Regards
   
  R K Atri
   
   
   
   
   
  
 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com 




==============================================================================
TOPIC: Be positive about being indian
http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/b637f11aa5e617ee
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 12 2006 5:40 am 
From: manoj saini  

Namaskar 
          
I found this mail very inspiring may feel that too.

 The President of India DR. A. P. J. Abdul Kalam's Speech in Hyderabad.

Why is the media here so negative?
Why are we in India so embarrassed to recognize our own strengths, our
achievements? We are such a great nation. We have so many amazing
success
stories but we refuse to acknowledge them. Why?
We are the first in milk production.
We are number one in Remote sensing satellites.We are the second largest 
producer of wheat.
We are the second largest producer of rice.
Look at Dr. Sudarshan, he has transferred the tribal village into a
self-sustaining, self-driving unit. There are millions of such
achievements
but our media is only obsessed in the bad news and failures and disasters.
I was in Tel Aviv once and I was reading the Israeli newspaper. It was the
day after a lot of attacks and bombardments and deaths had taken place.
The Hamas had struck. But the front page of the newspaper had the picture of a
Jewish gentleman who in five years had transformed his desert into an
orchid and a granary.
It was this inspiring picture that everyone woke up to. The gory details of
killings, bombardments, deaths, were inside in the newspaper, buried
among other news.

In India we only read about death, sickness, terrorism, crime. Why are
we
so NEGATIVE? Another question: Why are we, as a nation so obsessed with
foreign things? We want foreign T. Vs, we want foreign shirts. We want
foreign technology.

Why this obsession with everything imported. Do we not realize that
self-respect comes with self-reliance? I was in Hyderabad giving this
lecture, when a 14 year old girl asked me for my autograph. I asked her
what her goal in life is. She replied: I want to live in a developed India.
For her, you and I will have to build this developed India. You must
proclaim. India is not an under-developed nation; it is a highly developed
nation. Do you have 10 minutes? Allow me to come back with a vengeance.

Got 10 minutes for your country? If yes, then read; otherwise, choice is
yours.
YOU say that our government is inefficient.
YOU say that our laws are too old.
YOU say that the municipality does not pick up the garbage.
YOU say that the phones don't work, the railways are a joke,
The airline is the worst in the world, mails never reach their
destination.
YOU say that our country has been fed to the dogs and is the absolute
pits.

YOU say, say and say. What do YOU do about it?
Take a person on his way to Singapore. Give him a name - YOURS. Give him a
face - YOURS. YOU walk out of the airport and you are at your International
best. In Singapore you don't throw cigarette butts on the roads or eat in
the stores. YOU are as proud of their Underground links as they are. You
pay $5 (approx. Rs. 60) to drive through Orchard Road (equivalent of
Mahim Causeway or Pedder Road) between 5 PM and 8 PM. YOU come back to the
parking lot to punch your parking ticket if you have over stayed in a
restaurant or a shopping mall irrespective of your status identity... In
Singapore you don't say anything, DO YOU? YOU wouldn't dare to eat in
public during Ramadan, in Dubai. YOU would not dare to go out without your
head covered in Jeddah. YOU would not dare to buy an employee of the
telephone exchange in London at 10 pounds (Rs.650) a month to, 'see to it
that my STD and ISD calls are billed to someone else.'YOU would not dare to
speed beyond 55 mph (88 km/h) in Washington and then tell the traffic cop,
'Jaanta hai main kaun hoon (Do you know who I am?). I am so and so's son.
Take your two bucks and get lost.' YOU wouldn't chuck an empty coconut
shell anywhere other than the garbage pail on the beaches in Australia
and New Zealand.
Why don't YOU spit Paan on the streets of Tokyo? Why don't YOU use
examination jockeys or buy fake certificates in Boston??? We are still
talking of the same YOU. YOU who can respect and conform to a foreign
system in other countries but cannot in your own. You who will throw papers
and cigarettes on the road the moment you touch Indian ground. If you can
be an involved and appreciative citizen in an alien country, why cannot
you be the same here in India?

Once in an interview, the famous Ex-municipal commissioner of Bombay,
Mr. Tinaikar, had a point to make. 'Rich people's dogs are walked on the
streets to leave their affluent droppings all over the place,' he said.
'And then the same people turn around to criticize and blame the
authorities for inefficiency and dirty pavements. What do they expect the
officers to do? Go down with a broom every time their dog feels the
pressure in his bowels?
In America every dog owner has to clean up after his pet has done the job.
Same in Japan. Will the Indian citizen do that here?' He's right. We go to
the polls to choose a government and after that forfeit all
responsibility.
We sit back wanting to be pampered and expect the government to do
everything for us whilst our contribution is totally negative. We expect
the government to clean up but we are not going to stop chucking garbage
all over the place nor are we going to stop to pick a up a stray piece of
paper and throw it in the bin. We expect the railways to provide clean
bathrooms but we are not going to learn the proper use of bathrooms.

We want Indian Airlines and Air India to provide the best of food and
toiletries but we are not going to stop pilfering at the least
opportunity.
This applies even to the staff who is known not to pass on the service
to
the public. When it comes to burning social issues like those related to
women, dowry, girl child! and others, we make loud drawing room
protestations and continue to do the reverse at home. Our excuse? 'It's
the
whole system which has to change, how will it matter if I alone forego
my
sons' rights to a dowry.' So who's going to change the system?
What does a system consist of ? Very conveniently for us it consists of
our
neighbours, other households, other cities, other communities and the
government. But definitely not me and YOU. When it comes to us actually
making a positive contribution to the system we lock ourselves along
with
our families into a safe cocoon and look into the distance at countries
far
away and wait for a Mr.Clean to come along & work miracles for us with a
majestic sweep of his hand or we leave the country and run away.
Like lazy cowards hounded by our fears we run to America to bask in
their
glory and praise their system. When New York becomes insecure we run to
England. When England experiences unemployment, we take the next flight
out
to the Gulf. When the Gulf is war struck, we demand to be rescued and
brought home by the Indian government. Everybody is out to abuse and
rape
the country. Nobody thinks of feeding the system. Our conscience is
mortgaged to money.

Dear Indians, The article is highly thought inductive, calls for a great
deal of introspection and pricks one's conscience too.... I am echoing
J.
F. Kennedy's words to his fellow Americans to relate to Indians.....

'ASK WHAT WE CAN DO FOR INDIA
AND DO WHAT HAS TO BE DONE TO MAKE INDIA
WHAT AMERICA AND OTHER WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE TODAY'

Lets do what India needs from us.


Thank you,

 Dr. Abdul Kalaam
 (PRESIDENT OF INDIA)

Be Indian Buy Indian


                                
---------------------------------
 Jiyo cricket on Yahoo! India cricket
Yahoo! Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time.



==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"BM_discussion"
group.

To post to this group, send email to [email protected] or visit 
http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/subscribe

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com

Reply via email to