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Today's topics: * Future of BM - An open chat with BM Management? - 2 messages, 2 authors http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/34cdef4372347d75 * NVIC News: Parents charge CDC manipulated mercury in vaccines study. - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/4fdb4b763f562248 * is BM A political party ???? - 3 messages, 2 authors http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/7aee0d088e4fb4ec * BM Needs a constitution - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/55e6a8ab8ea370a ============================================================================== TOPIC: Future of BM - An open chat with BM Management? http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/34cdef4372347d75 ============================================================================== == 1 of 2 == Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 10:42 am From: "Mukesh Bansal" Dear friends, You all are proud members of BM, and you have chosen this group for upliftment of humanity. You have been working hard, and are expecting nothing in return. That is very nice, but surely not sufficient to make you successful. The success will come when a sense of collective effort will emerge. Members should feel connected with other BM members anywhere in the world. Pain to other member / Loss of a member should be pain to us also. If someone leaves the group, we should feel bad about it. May I ask for a general Q&A session with BM management on an Internet chat site, where members can ask questions related to (1) How BM management sees BM's future, (2) What are immediate focus areas (not just propagation, some concrete ground work), (3) What are longer-term focus areas? I would want to collect questions from common BM members, compile them and send approximately 20 selected questions to BM Management which will be answered before the chat session starts. Someone should moderate this session so that we don't deviate from the agreed agenda of this chat session (I can offer to become a moderator). -- "We have only one passion, The rise of a great nation." Shubham Mukesh Bansal *SOME PERSONAL THOUGHTS:* * About Management:* The group should also be democratic in nature. Some closed group of persons (Names are also disclosed to most BM members) calling themselves BM Management may not dictate terms to everyone. That defeats the very purpose of the group because I am sure that we will never be able to see India rising through such a group. *About Core Ideology:* In general, it is good. But it must be well understood by each member, so it should also be well advertised. It may not be enforced like "Everyone must accept our core ideology before joining the Mission" unless it is accepted by a resolution in the group (By group, I mean a democratically elected leadership). Personally, I think that ideologies evolve with time (Also, as per Indian/Hindu traditions). So it is a mistake to mark our ideology as Unchangeable. *Where are we moving? Do we know?* But the main point is - The group has to be very clear about what it wants and it must set the goals carefully. Then a sort of collective effort should be visible. Some example of "What group wants" - Find out reform areas e.g. 1. Language Reforms, so that non-English speaking majority gets equal opportunities as English-speaking minority 2. Economical Reforms, so that mass production does not replace mass employment ' 3. Environmental reform, so that strict rules are followed to keep our environment free even if it result in lesser production 4. Political reforms, so that leaders are directly accountable to their constituency / etc.) Some examples of Goals (derived from "What group wants") - (1) Get production of eco-friendly bags started in Bangalore and Delhi for experimental purposes by 30th June 2006 (2) Decide upon the language reforms areas by 30th June 2006 (3) Start libraries carrying Indian language books at 25 location by end of 2006. (4) ... == 2 of 2 == Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 10:26 am From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Mukeshji and other members, I am also having more or less same concerns. But I have some other thoughts as well. It is not the case that management group was formed undemocratically. Admin team was formed by then existing management members, which had more than 15 members(as far as I can recall). We were given immeddiate the task of forming other teams. We had requested for nomination from all members of BM and with simple condition that member should be with BM for 3 months at least. The intention of condition was that there should be some familiarity with BM. Condition could be debated. And personally I would recommend even harder conditions. Anyway, since we got fewer nomination which were satisfying the condition. We appointed all as members of various teams as the nominations requested for. Teams were formed, but due to unknown reasons many team members could not perform, as many would agree. So we had continuos short fall of people addressing various issues. Also in our case there are some short comings in our communication. This could be the case even with teams which do work in physical proximity. If this would not have been the case, then team excercises wouldn't have part of NDA entrance. Management group was formed out 1 representative from all teams. Teams were asked to send their representative. As of now two teams have no represntation in group. Another two are having their final exams. So you can imagine the efficiency at present. Somehow I feel that Admin team was active and it did good on some fronts and not so well on other. We have spent from an hour to 4 hours everyday for almost complete week since we joined the team. But again we felt short fall, as one of Member had tough time with academics, so was relatively less active. Anyway, things were on track as far as moderation were concenrned. We also have this concern, since we are part of the team, that there should be constitution for BM and chapters should do more activities. We are also concerned about lack of planning. But we are few in numbers, with limited hours to spend, as we have professional, personal and chapter activities in Hand. Above all we are short of experience. We are looking for people who have experience, commitment and energy to do all these work along with us. At least for guidance. I hope we are not suppoed to work round the clock. We can always add new members, but what's guarantee that they will also not go the same way. It was the concern while expanding any team. We need people who can give an idea, take ownership of it and complete it. I feel the real need of the hour is this only. We have many contributor but less owners. We have many who talk more but when it comes to taking things to finish line, they disappear. My thoughts about your thoughts. I am not in position to recall any decision, which was imposed by management group on anyone. The decision were taken on various issues, either to ensure efficiency or maintain discipline or similar intentions. Some decision could have gone wrong, but not sure which ones. I think the intention of putting unchangeable tag is, we should also not go the way many political parties have gone. Please understand the fear also, that we need to be pure while being in action and strong and unchangeable ieology is very much needed for such sustainence. I think we are moving in right direction but slower than the rate at which we are growing. The rate of growth is higher than rate at which we are managing things, rate at which we are educating about ideology and philosophy and rate at which chapter activities are growing. For me your idea of chat is good, but I fear how many from existing team are available to participate. May be you want to collect questions and give your own answers. At least question will help us prepare better for next convention and that would make more fruitful convention. Please forgive me, if I said anything incorrect. An equally concerned person. -- Thanks and Regards, Rishikesh --------- "Like Power comes with Responsibilities, Freedom comes with Self-Discipline." ============================================================================== TOPIC: NVIC News: Parents charge CDC manipulated mercury in vaccines study. http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/4fdb4b763f562248 ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 4:07 am From: Jagannath Chatterjee E-NEWS FROM THE NATIONAL VACCINE INFORMATION CENTER Vienna, Virginia http://www.nvic.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * UNITED WAY/COMBINED FEDERAL CAMPAIGN #8122 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Protecting the health and informed consent rights of children since 1982." ========================================================================================== http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191167,00.html FoxNews WebMD Debate Flares Over Vaccines, Autism Link Monday, April 10, 2006 By Todd Zwillich Debate over a possible tie between mercury-containing vaccines and autism flared up this week as activist groups launched a campaign accusing federal health agencies and prominent researchers of manipulating scientific findings on the link. Some parents of autistic children have long blamed vaccines containing the preservative thimerosal for an alarming rise in the disorder. Thimerosal contains a type of mercury. A series of reports by the Institute of Medicine (IOM) ending in 2004 concluded no evidence could be found linking the vaccines to neurological diseases, including autism. But groups this week mounted a campaign to publicize previously undisclosed transcripts and emails that they say point to efforts by the CDC to manipulate the IOMs scientific conclusions on the safety of vaccines containing thimerosal. The groups accuse the CDC of trying to defend a long-held policy promoting childhood vaccinations. In the interest of protecting the immunization program, they forgot about child safety. They are continuing that pattern of behavior and denial that thimerosal causes harm, Bobbie Manning, vice president of Advocates for Childrens Health Affected by Mercury, tells WebMD. According to the CDC, all vaccines recommended for children are available in thimerosal-free versions. But some parents say millions of previous exposures helped caused a spike in autism cases since the 1980s. The CDC contracted with the IOM in 2001 to generate a series of reports on possible links between vaccines and a variety of health problems. An IOM committee of outside experts, led by Harvard researcher Marie McCormick, MD, found no evidence of a link and concluded that proposed biological explanations for a mercury-autism relationship were theoretical. Allegations of Bias Activist groups released transcripts of closed-door conversations in 2001 between McCormick and Kathleen Stratton, the study director. Groups say the conversation suggests that the committee would fashion its findings to meet the CDCs desires to play down a link between thimerosal and autism. [The CDC] wants us to declare, well, these things are pretty safe on a population basis, McCormick said to Stratton, according to the transcript, posted on a web site called Putchildrenfirst.com. Thirty-four pages later in the transcript, McCormick states, ...we are not ever going to come down that [autism] is a true side effect. Manning said the transcript shows that the CDC directed that committee to find what they wanted to find, which was no causation between vaccines and autism. In an interview, McCormick confirmed that the statements in the transcript are accurate and true. But she said there was no truth to allegations that CDC officials influenced the IOM or that the committee reached conclusions before its scientific review. McCormick said her comments reflected a debate over whether the committee would look at vaccine effects in individuals or across populations, and not what any specific findings would be. The conversation also took place in late 2001, before the committees final 2004 report on vaccines and autism was planned, McCormick said. In 2001 we did not know we were going to look at autism again. To use those as evidence for what we did in 2004 is really inappropriate, she said. McCormick added that the committees experts were chosen specifically for their scientific independence and for a lack of ties to both pharmaceutical manufacturers and the CDC. CDC Perspective Parents groups alleged that CDC officials had worked to dissuade agency scientists from looking more deeply into links between thimerosal and autism. The groups also alleged that CDC officials narrowed the scope of the IOMs report to include a handful of studies, most of which the agency had a role in funding or planning. Those studies generally showed little evidence of a link between vaccination and autism. Tom Skinner, a CDC spokesman, said the agency has been very transparent about its ongoing studies of autism and vaccines and that the emails have been taken out of context. He said the agency closely guards its scientific credibility and in no way tried to influence IOM experts. We stand behind our science thats been done to this date and we will certainly do more in the future, he said. Louis Z. Cooper, MD, an emeritus professor of pediatrics at Columbia University and a founder of the National Network for Immunization Information, said in an interview that some of the emails and transcripts cause some anxiety because they may help fuel fear among parents about the safety of vaccines and the motivations of health officials. Still, Cooper, who noted hes known McCormick professionally for at least 20 years, called accusations of bias against her or other members of IOMs committee rubbish, scurrilous, and awful. "If I wanted a group who were committed to objectivity and were committed to science, I couldnt have asked for a better group of people, said Cooper, a former president of the American Academy of Pediatrics. Manning said her group and others would continue to push for congressional investigations into how the IOM conducted the studies and whether they were influenced by the CDC. We believe that this is a serious issue that needs to be examined, she said. By Todd Zwillich, reviewed by Louise Chang, MD SOURCES: Bobbie Manning, vice president, Advocates for Childrens Health Affected by Mercury. www.putchildrenfirst.com. Marie McCormick, MD, professor of maternal and child health, Harvard University School of Public Health. Tom Skinner, spokesman, CDC. Louis Z. Cooper, MD, professor emeritus, Columbia University. ============================================= [EMAIL PROTECTED] is a free service of the National Vaccine Information Center and is supported through membership donations. Learn more about vaccines, diseases and how to protect your informed consent rights http://www.nvic.org Become a member and support NVIC's work https://www.nvic.org/making%20cash%20donations.htm To sign up for a free e-mail subscription http://www.nvic.org/emaillist.htm To unsubscribe from this list, please go to http://nvic.org/emaillistunsub.htm or send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and type UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the email. NVIC is funded through individual membership donations and does not receive government funding. Barbara Loe Fisher, President and Co-founder. NOTE: This is not an interactive e-mail list. Please do not respond to messages. "Our ideal is not the spirituality that withdraws from life but the conquest of life by the power of the spirit." - Aurobindo. --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ============================================================================== TOPIC: is BM A political party ???? http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/7aee0d088e4fb4ec ============================================================================== == 1 of 3 == Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 4:04 pm From: quixton don Dear Friends, Suggestion given by Milind is very useful as i feel a lot of clarity is required at this level i was attending a workshop at IITK on infrastructure and just back from there and i spoke to a couple of professor friends who are willing to contribute in terms of thoughts and then make a consensus on certain issues also we need to think do we really need a political party to achieve the objectives that we really want to achieve ? To my mind we are not in a position and in case we start a party we will be fighting inside like all other parties . We need to have a uniform policy agenda for Equal opportunity to vote and equal opportunity to get elected in this context a lot of experienced people can come to join us recently i spoke to a couple of people like Mr P K Siddarth who is posted as I G Police in Ranchi and Mr Vijay Shankar Pandey I A S Secretory U .P.Government these two people have a similar mind set and thoughts as of BM also they are willing to contribute towards this cause but we need discussion with them in open as such i am talking to a number of prominent people about various issues i am quoting these people as they were fighters of their time and they are still fighting with the system so we need to learn some lessons from their experiences. Kindly give it a thought that in case we can organise a meeting during these summer vacations it will help us with more clarity. Love & Regards R K Atri 09868610518 varpal singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: dear Brother and sisters... Please take attention on the topic of arrenging "Workshop" suggested by Milind......All BM member should attend from all over India... Please take it seriously. On 4/10/06, Milind Kotwal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, I am a management consultant from Mumbai, came to know about BM from Mr. Mahesh Bhagnari. I was impressed to know that BM has political vision. Also when I saw many young people attending the meeting at Mumbai I felt like associating with BM. I had decided to be just an observer for couple of months to know more about BM, and then start contributing actively. However after reading mails on this Mumbai happenings, I feel BM needs more clarity in its objectives and action plan. In a scenario when general people have disillusioned from each and every political party, a group like BM has tremendous potential. I am confident that BM can come to power at centre in less than fifteen years if it is clear on its vision and action plan.. Can we have a one/ two day workshop with the core team at Mumbai preferably in May/ June ? I can bear part of the costs.. Please let me know.. Regards, Milind Kotwal Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com == 2 of 3 == Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 4:16 pm From: quixton don Dear Friends, Suggestion given by Milind is very useful as i feel a lot of clarity is required at this level i was attending a conference & workshop at IITK on infrastructure and just back from there and i spoke to a couple of Professor friends & Well known people who are willing to contribute in terms of thoughts but they were sirprised that being in IITK they do not know about such a noble idea so we need to make a consensus on certain issues . We also need to think do we really need a political party to achieve the objectives that we really want to achieve ? To my mind we are not in a position and in case we start a party we will be fighting inside like all other parties . We need to have a uniform policy agenda for Equal opportunity to vote and equal opportunity to get elected in this context a lot of experienced people can come to join us recently i spoke to a couple of people like Mr P K Siddarth who is posted as I G Police in Ranchi and Mr Vijay Shankar Pandey I A S Secretory U .P.Government these two people have a similar mind set and thoughts as of BM also they are willing to contribute towards this cause but we need discussion with them in open as such i am talking to a number of prominent people about various issues i am quoting these people as they were fighters of their time and they are still fighting with the system so we need to learn some lessons from their experiences. My reason of quoting these people is that they have been fighting with system for several years and are also known with well intentions and regarded all over the world for their contribution Kindly give it a thought that in case we can organise a meeting during these summer vacations it will help us with more clarity. Love & Regards R K Atri 09868610518 varpal singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: dear Brother and sisters... Please take attention on the topic of arrenging "Workshop" suggested by Milind......All BM member should attend from all over India... Please take it seriously. On 4/10/06, Milind Kotwal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, I am a management consultant from Mumbai, came to know about BM from Mr. Mahesh Bhagnari. I was impressed to know that BM has political vision. Also when I saw many young people attending the meeting at Mumbai I felt like associating with BM. I had decided to be just an observer for couple of months to know more about BM, and then start contributing actively. However after reading mails on this Mumbai happenings, I feel BM needs more clarity in its objectives and action plan. In a scenario when general people have disillusioned from each and every political party, a group like BM has tremendous potential. I am confident that BM can come to power at centre in less than fifteen years if it is clear on its vision and action plan.. Can we have a one/ two day workshop with the core team at Mumbai preferably in May/ June ? I can bear part of the costs.. Please let me know.. Regards, Milind Kotwal Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com == 3 of 3 == Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 11:30 am From: satya This is really a good suggestion. We really need to have a All Hand Meeting of all the chapters at one place some time soon. On 13/04/06, quixton don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > Suggestion given by Milind is very useful as i feel a lot of clarity is > required at this level i was attending a conference & workshop at IITK on > infrastructure and just back from there and i spoke to a couple of Professor > friends & Well known people who are willing to contribute in terms of > thoughts but they were sirprised that being in IITK they do not know about > such a noble idea so we need to make a consensus on certain issues . > > We also need to think do we really need a political party to achieve the > objectives that we really want to achieve ? To my mind we are not in a > position and in case we start a party we will be fighting inside like all > other parties . > > We need to have a uniform policy agenda for Equal opportunity to vote and > equal opportunity to get elected in this context a lot of experienced > people can come to join us recently i spoke to a couple of people like MrP K > Siddarth who is posted as I G Police in Ranchi and Mr Vijay Shankar > Pandey > I A S Secretory U .P.Government these two people have a similar mind set > and thoughts as of BM also they are willing to contribute towards this cause > but we need discussion with them in open as such i am talking to a number of > prominent people about various issues i am quoting these people as they > were fighters of their time and they are still fighting with the system so > we need to learn some lessons from their experiences. > > My reason of quoting these people is that they have been fighting with > system for several years and are also known with well intentions and > regarded all over the world for their contribution > > Kindly give it a thought that in case we can organise a meeting during > these summer vacations it will help us with more clarity. > > Love & Regards > > R K Atri > > 09868610518 > > > *varpal singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote: > > dear Brother and sisters... > Please take attention on the topic > of arrenging "Workshop" suggested by Milind......All BM member should attend > from all over India... > Please take it seriously. > > > On 4/10/06, Milind Kotwal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I am a management consultant from Mumbai, came to know about BM from Mr. > > Mahesh Bhagnari. I was impressed to know that BM has political vision. Also > > when I saw many young people attending the meeting at Mumbai I felt like > > associating with BM. > > > > I had decided to be just an observer for couple of months to know more > > about BM, and then start contributing actively. However after reading mails > > on this Mumbai happenings, I feel BM needs more clarity in its objectives > > and action plan. > > > > In a scenario when general people have disillusioned from each and every > > political party, a group like BM has tremendous potential. I am confident > > that BM can come to power at centre in less than fifteen years if it is > > clear on its vision and action plan.. > > > > Can we have a one/ two day workshop with the core team at Mumbai > > preferably in May/ June ? I can bear part of the costs.. > > > > Please let me know.. > > > > Regards, > > > > Milind Kotwal > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > > > -- "|| bRaHmAiVa sAtYaM ||" ============================================================================== TOPIC: BM Needs a constitution http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/55e6a8ab8ea370a ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 11:53 pm From: "Amit" Dear Friends, BM's Constitution should be framed, discussed and accepted at the earliest and as the first priority so that it will help to resolve issues and move further with our mission. It will help to sort out all the issues raised by the author. So long as constitution is not accepted issues will keep surfacing. It is happening from the formation stage and will continue further. Constitution will give an opportunity to be heard for both the parties before the disciplinary commitee and the common issues will be solved in amicable way rather than such issues taking personal stands. The question is not limited to removal of certain person. Legally and morally the person will be out as per the poll and the poll will solve only this question. But the issue is not limited to double loyalities. The other issues will remain unanswered and will surface again but the person will be different next time to raise the same issues. We are framing the rules as the issues arise, this will not help to remove the cause. The best way to solve the issue is to hear both the sides and then reach a decision this can be achieved only after the consititution is accepted by the members of BM. I think we should stop all other activities and all must concentrate only on the consitution. It will help us to remain united on the issues which are close to our heart and we have consensus, i.e. rise of a great nation. Jai Hind, Amit Karande. ============================================================================== You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BM_discussion" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] or visit http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change the way you get mail from this group, visit: http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/subscribe To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ============================================================================== Google Groups: http://groups.google.com
