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BM_discussion@googlegroups.com Today's topics: * Fw: Brotherhood: Humanity: Social Working: Priorities in individual life - 4 messages, 3 authors http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/a71dd43c54359019?hl=en ============================================================================== TOPIC: Fw: Brotherhood: Humanity: Social Working: Priorities in individual life http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/a71dd43c54359019?hl=en ============================================================================== == 1 of 4 == Date: Tues, Oct 23 2007 9:26 am From: "Dr. Prahalathan KK" As you have chosen not to reply in this chain anymore, I would request you to post me a reply to my inbox at least and I am eagerly awaiting it. You've sent this to BM_Discussion asking him to reply personaly??? Vande Mataram! Prahalathan http://www.prahalathan.blogspot.com/ www.BhumiChennai.co.nr India at 60, Better than yesterday, But, not as good as tomorrow! -----Original Message----- From: BM_discussion@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of suren Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 12:41 AM To: BM_discussion Subject: [BM_discussion] Re: Fw: Brotherhood: Humanity: Social Working: Priorities in individual life Dear Mr.Vivek First of all I m pleasantly surprised by your decision to include me in the intellectual class or that is what I understand from your mails. If that is what you meant, I am obliged to tell you something in this regard. I am not a scholar, nor an academic, I don't have an IIT/IIM degree or for that matter I don't even belong to any of the premier educational institutions. I am a software professional by qualification but I don't work for any corporate (I am not intending too) and I do not have access to really big money and I never had it too. On top of all I am not even half your age. But I do know what our society is, where I stand in it, what it needs and what my accountability to the society is etc, if not to your levels and I strongly believe I would learn it with age and I am of the opinion that yours' is not the only way to do it. Well if you feel there is no ideological base in this thread, I would be happy to straighten it out. I would be very glad to explain my stand if you can kindly point out where I have erred in logic. Since you have raised this point of ideology and logic, I would also like to ask you something in this regard, which I feel you would be more than willing to answer and clear my doubts. In your replies, you have visualized BM as the elite class and that you are willing to stand with the under privileged class. This, if I am not wrong, is a Marxist stand. This being the case, are you working towards social reconstruction or are you marching towards a revolution to overthrow the elite class and put the subaltern class in a better position. If this is not the case and if you are not a Marxist by ideology why shouldn't I tell that you are pulling up ideologies at will to justify the points you are willing to convey through that mail. How would you logically justify Gandhian ideology and Marxism in a single mail? While you criticize the mails for being philosophically loaded, intellectual, heavy but hollow words etc, how would you explain this act of pulling Marxism out of no where, into this issue, though you are not putting it in direct words? I presume that you had realized that people passing out of the premier educational institutions are doing so only to get an identity and security, long before this issue has come up. If that is the case, why did you need those identities in your mail and you are yet to answer this question of mine. Also, what made you change it? You also claim to have the mass support. I guess that it was that section of masses which were underprivileged that you were working for and so would you like to say that these identities and securities were absolutely immaterial for your works? When a person is dying in the ocean you may jump in it, even if you don't know swimming, to save him. I would like to appreciate this tendency of yours and I bet not many would have this guts. You may even succeed in saving the person, even if you yourself don't know swimming. But how many times can you do the same. If for instance, if you happen to drown (God Forbid) during the second such incident, what is the plight of the persons who would fall in the same ocean after that. We do not want one such scenario to come up and our intentions are to develop such a situation whereby nobody falls into the ocean again. We may be slow but sure to reach there or at least initiate the process which would be continued by the forthcoming generations. As you have chosen not to reply in this chain anymore, I would request you to post me a reply to my inbox at least and I am eagerly awaiting it. B.Surendran == 2 of 4 == Date: Tues, Oct 23 2007 10:54 pm From: "Vivek Umrao Glendenning" Respected Surendran Ji, You are much more than half of my age. I will be 31 years in age on 27th of November. I hope you are about 20 to 25 years in age. Rest is fine. love vivek From: Surendran B Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 12:37 AM To: BM_discussion@googlegroups.com Cc: Group BM General Body Subject: [BM_discussion] Re: Fw: Brotherhood: Humanity: Social Working: Priorities in individual life Dear Mr.Vivek First of all I m pleasantly surprised by your decision to include me in the intellectual class or that is what I understand from your mails. If that is what you meant, I am obliged to tell you something in this regard. I am not a scholar, nor an academic, I don't have an IIT/IIM degree or for that matter I don't even belong to any of the premier educational institutions. I am a software professional by qualification but I don't work for any corporate (I am not intending too) and I do not have access to really big money and I never had it too. On top of all I am not even half your age. But I do know what our society is, where I stand in it, what it needs and what my accountability to the society is etc, if not to your levels and I strongly believe I would learn it with age and I am of the opinion that yours' is not the only way to do it. Well if you feel there is no ideological base in this thread, I would be happy to straighten it out. I would be very glad to explain my stand if you can kindly point out where I have erred in logic. Since you have raised this point of ideology and logic, I would also like to ask you something in this regard, which I feel you would be more than willing to answer and clear my doubts. In your replies, you have visualized BM as the elite class and that you are willing to stand with the under privileged class. This, if I am not wrong, is a Marxist stand. This being the case, are you working towards social reconstruction or are you marching towards a revolution to overthrow the elite class and put the subaltern class in a better position. If this is not the case and if you are not a Marxist by ideology why shouldn't I tell that you are pulling up ideologies at will to justify the points you are willing to convey through that mail. How would you logically justify Gandhian ideology and Marxism in a single mail? While you criticize the mails for being philosophically loaded, intellectual, heavy but hollow words etc, how would you explain this act of pulling Marxism out of no where, into this issue, though you are not putting it in direct words? I presume that you had realized that people passing out of the premier educational institutions are doing so only to get an identity and security, long before this issue has come up. If that is the case, why did you need those identities in your mail and you are yet to answer this question of mine. Also, what made you change it? You also claim to have the mass support. I guess that it was that section of masses which were underprivileged that you were working for and so would you like to say that these identities and securities were absolutely immaterial for your works? When a person is dying in the ocean you may jump in it, even if you don't know swimming, to save him. I would like to appreciate this tendency of yours and I bet not many would have this guts. You may even succeed in saving the person, even if you yourself don't know swimming. But how many times can you do the same. If for instance, if you happen to drown (God Forbid) during the second such incident, what is the plight of the persons who would fall in the same ocean after that. We do not want one such scenario to come up and our intentions are to develop such a situation whereby nobody falls into the ocean again. We may be slow but sure to reach there or at least initiate the process which would be continued by the forthcoming generations. As you have chosen not to reply in this chain anymore, I would request you to post me a reply to my inbox at least and I am eagerly awaiting it. On 10/20/07, Vivek Umrao Glendenning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Social Ownership Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 8:40 AM To: Dr. Kamal Cc: Bharat Shilpi ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Brotherhood: Humanity: Social Working: Priorities in individual life Respected Dr. Saheb, Sorry i am not anyone's big brother. I am too younger in age. Sorry i am a common man and like to stand with common man. I am hard in my daily life also if there is anything against common man. Sorry only to get some praising from Elite Group i can not leave my stand. I know very well the sensitivities of you all in various social issues for last two years. I know it very well. Please go and evaluate the works and stand of BM including Dr Ravi and off course your also. Still i have a question, a moral question that when you should work, when society needs you or based on your own life style calculations. How can you join your hand with exploited society even you are also contributing very well in the exploitation of society. Even these questions look stupid to you all, but if you will be able to answer only then you will be able to work for society in real sense. I can not stop you to think based on your own conditioning but i can say one thing that you were wrong and are wrong in evaluation. May be you think in your mind that you are very right, but i know that you or Dr ravi or others knew from your childhood that your society is suffering and is being exploited but you opted to not work for society (you had options, everyone has options), it was your own choice. Society was not in priority from your childhood and still society is not in your priority (then why should i take your evaluation or advices seriously? please do not mind it). Suppose one person is dying in a ocean, what i will do, even i do not know swim but i will throw myself in ocean. What you will do, you will go to learn swimming and then you will go to arrange for two life jackets and ropes then you will go in ocean, but till then......(you can think easily, what you will get in ocean) and because you will go to learn in a swimming institute and to get life jackets thus people will know that you are going to save a life you will be praised and also will get media publicity and also will get award (it is sure by this mean you will be a very big Social Worker as Dr Reddy mentioned in his mail for Dr Ravi). In this story, i will be feeling exactly same thing as that man, i will be also seeing my death then me and that guy both will try our best to save our lives together and we will also feel brotherhood and this feeling of brotherhood and i will be able to understand live experience of his pain and it will not be advertised. And in this incident i would have learnt swimming also and will be moving to be a human being (not a social worker). You can make thousands of logics but i know very well that there are millions of millions persons are dying and numbers of life jackets are very less in number. I entered in social activism when i was less than 15 years in my age, no body trusted me that i will continue in works but they have left and i am still here, many persons have told me that i am rude thus i will not have committed friends. But i know that i have lots of friends with commitment and have mass support also, but i always face problems from Elite Class as i have been facing in BM. I have decided that i will stand with non-privileged class. Except me who is criticizing Dr Ravi? No one? I know that Dr Ravi and you are not very honest this is why you do not like my critics. If you will start to see with depth then you will get that if i have ego then i have base for it and you have baseless ego. If i have ego and non-polite guy then how mass is giving its support to me. I think manners, attitudes, and other similar things are just for Elite Groups, still these words need to be defined. Why should i follow definitions of Elite Group? I wait your conditioned, biased and full of logics reply. You evaluate via Emails, i evaluate by actions and activities and live behaviour. You guys are evaluating Dr Ravi because he writes good language mail. I evaluate by his actions. You feel that he is walking in truth because he writes long article on truth, i want to ask a simple question that why he mobilize BM members to become General Secretary of BM even he came just for few months in India (under which type of Truth and Gandhian Ideology?). You trust him in his statement of Village Economy because his dreams are very good in his writings but i want to know that by getting money from outside and by having a luxurious Ashram how he will move towards Village Economy (Economy means Currency?). You are saying that Dr Ravi ji is polite and sensitive, only because he speaks very soft in language and in mails. I think that he is an very violent man he mobilized BM members to become General Secretary even he had no moral rights for it, he has not practical experiences but he is mobilizing only by emails that he should be granted 9 Million Rs in next few years. He opted to leave India and spent his quality years in USA and will spend remain energetic (what is the base of his sensitivity?). For you he can be very sensitive, i know that because people are not very aware thus people will be with him because of his many illusions. But my questions are only because he makes lots of too heavy statements that he walks in truth, high moral values and in Gandhian Ideology, he provides me opportunity to ask questions by his own statements as i give opportunity to you to write negative mails to me. (i hope you will try to understand my points above than your identity, high personality and ego (not giant)). One more thing, i always reply, even i am criticized by you or others because communication break is not a good thing. I went to Gwalior to meet BM members including but Dr Ravi had no time to have talk with me, because he is perfect and has perfect understanding thus he does not need any learning. It is because of Egos of IIT, Singapore, $ and USA. I know some young BM members, they have much better understanding of society than Dr Ravi but they have not back up of USA, $ or also not from any Dr Reddy, Dr Kamal and others. Respected Dr. Akalpita Ji, India is in very critical state, it needs very hard TAPASYA, not less than this. Society is not a joke or a toy for Elites that it should be played as they want. BM member called me for one hour and spoke to me heavy philosophical words on Flood with high sensitivity but till now those BM members are not anywhere in action. People are interested to work on T-Sunami but not in Flood, because T-Sunami was an international media publicity also, but Flood is not a media publicity. In flood, there are more continuous sufferings than one time T-Sunami. Have you visited damaged Villages of Earth Quakes? Just after few months, anyone can go and can evaluate the alive examples of manners and sensitivities of our Elite Groups. I live with painful society directly. I am totally unable to understand heavy but hollow wordings of ........ Sorry for my disabilities. love vivek Rest is on you. love vivek On 10/20/07, Dr. Kamal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear Vivek, Even in your apologies (if you seriously meant them) gives a clear indication of your giant ego and that you seem to have been hurt at the attempt of people to just tell you to mend your ways and appreciate efforts of others. I wish God gives you enough time and patience to mend your publicly non-defensible writings and be better known as a very sensible social worker for the last society. I know you do not need any certificate for that but whats the harm in appreciating and not looking down upon other's efforts, you will only see there are more friends along your journey to support and appreciate your efforts (I know you do not need them)...and in the process we will be able to make 1+1=11 for the common society. Everybody will benefit from that, even the last man, let the positive energies flow, even in a child or an MNC millionaire. If you have the guts and leadership ability to bring together such efforts on a common platform, that will be your golden contribution to the society...I am not only talking about money but efforts in kind. But till you are able to unite the efforts, you seriously need to learn to be positive and shed your ego or else let others do what they want and do not criticise them. Remember, every bit of criticism can only lower the morale of people because it is coming from YOU who is a veteran in this field. But being a big brother calls for more maturity and understanding. Hope your future glows more positive than today and let the common man benefit. Take this positively, you may like to react as always but if only you would be able to see the positive energy within... Regards. Dr.Kamal On 10/19/07, Vivek Umrao Glendenning <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: Respected Dr Ravi Kant Ji, Dr Reddy Ji, Dr Kamal Ji, Surendran Ji, Ranjan Ji and others I apologize for my all mails. I think, I should not reply in mails. I have understood that BM is a great organization and all are great. Respected Brothers and Sisters, Please this time forgive me, I will try my best to not put my leg in any discussion or matter. I hope I will be forgiven. Please Respected Dr Reddy Ji forgive me, Please Surendran Ji forgive me, Please Dr Ravi Kant Pathak Ji forgive me, Please Dr Kamal Kishore Sharma ji forgive me, Please Ranjan Ji forgive me, Please all BM members forgive me. I promise, I will try to praise BM and its members by accepting their greatness and completeness. love vivek ps- please forgive me, please accept my apology. please. Subject: Re: [BM_discussion] Re: Uniting and Rejunvenating BM Dear Vivek I hate to entre in to any debate. But, now, I request you, stop it. I agree with you regarding asking for money in such large quantities. I donot find any logic. Money should come automatically when the work needs it. First one has to start working. But Tum bahut muh fat ho. Kya tumhara yaha manana hai ki tapsya sirf jangal me ya himalay jaisi pahdiyon me ki ja sakti hai? Kya nagarme rehene walonme koi tapswi nahi banta? Kya manav jatiko sevake liye ghar bar chhodneki aawashyakta hai? Ky koi apni jagaha, apne kartavyanko nibhate huve logonki seva karte hi nahi? Maan liya ki tum is dishame sabse bahut hi aage ho. Mera manana hai ki tumne pichhle janam me chhoda huva adhura kaam aage badhaya hai. Us vaqt jab kaam chalu kiya tha, tumhari umra kya hogi? Jo tum kah rahe ho, danke ki chot par tab kahana jab tumhari santan ho. Jab tumhari santan ek kadam chalegi, usko bahut khushi hogi. Tab kya tum kahoge ki isme kaunsi badi bat hai? Mai to marethon daud chuka hun. Koi bhi kisibhi umarme agar ek kadam bhi chale to uski sarahana karna sikho. Tum bade ho hi. Dusron ko chhota dikhake kya tum aaur bade ban jaoge? Vidya vinayena shobhate, yah sahi hai ki ya fir Vidya vinayena na shobhate? Ek bat pakki than lo. Ma kabhi kharidi nahi ja sakti. aaur, agar bachheko sahi rasta na dikhaye to vaha maa nahi hoti. So mai to tumhe batati hi rahungi. Remember they also serve who only stand and wait. abhi logon ne aage badhna shuru kiya hai. Jis disha me tum choti par ho. unki sarahana karna sikho. Na ki unko chot panhuchao. Isase tumhare vyaktimatvako char chand lag jayenge. Tum kitnebhi naraj ho jao. Mai jitni tumhari sarahana karti hun, utnahi tumhe samzane ka haq rakhti hun. ek bar fir spashta kardun. tumhara batana galat nahi hai. Bataneka tarika, dhang galat hai. Akalpita Please visit our Annual Work Report, Articles and try to make a comment-- www.localgovernance.org/workreport001.html www.localgovernance.org/videos.html www.localgovernance.org/socialownershipintro.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.localgovernance.org/family.html [ we work for SOCIAL DEMOCRACY, SOCIAL OWNERSHIP, SOCIAL ECONOMY, SOCIAL EDUCATION, SOCIAL THOUGHTS, TRIBAL SOCIETY, AGRO-INDUSTRIAL-ECONOMY and SOCIAL VALUES] -- B.Surendran [EMAIL PROTECTED] ................................................................................................................... Please visit our Annual Work Report, Articles and try to make a comment-- www.localgovernance.org/workreport001.html www.localgovernance.org/videos.html www.localgovernance.org/socialownershipintro.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.localgovernance.org/family.html [ we work for SOCIAL DEMOCRACY, SOCIAL OWNERSHIP, SOCIAL ECONOMY, SOCIAL EDUCATION, SOCIAL THOUGHTS, TRIBAL SOCIETY, AGRO-INDUSTRIAL-ECONOMY and SOCIAL VALUES] == 3 of 4 == Date: Tues, Oct 23 2007 10:57 pm From: "Vivek Umrao Glendenning" Respected Surendran Ji, Please try to ignore the reply of Respected Dr Prahlathan. He always lives in logics and kills discussions. He thinks that every one is fool. He never replies in others discussions but has concentration in silly sentences by killing original sensitivity of whole writings. If in a mail you have something related to social welfare, even it is personally addressed, you have all rights to post it in groups. Please do not get sad. Continue to discuss things HOT or COLD but related to social welfare. One more thing, society loves, who works in ground not words. keep going with thinking and discussions related to society. Do not care for logics. love vivek -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dr. Prahalathan KK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:56 PM To: <BM_discussion@googlegroups.com> Subject: [BM_discussion] Re: Fw: Brotherhood: Humanity: Social Working: Priorities in individual life > > > As you have chosen not to reply in this chain anymore, I > would request you to post me a reply to my inbox at least and I am > eagerly awaiting it. > > You've sent this to BM_Discussion asking him to reply personaly??? > > Vande Mataram! > > Prahalathan > http://www.prahalathan.blogspot.com/ > www.BhumiChennai.co.nr > > India at 60, Better than yesterday, > But, not as good as tomorrow! > > -----Original Message----- > From: BM_discussion@googlegroups.com > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of suren > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 12:41 AM > To: BM_discussion > Subject: [BM_discussion] Re: Fw: Brotherhood: Humanity: Social Working: > Priorities in individual life > > > Dear Mr.Vivek > > First of all I m pleasantly surprised by your decision to include me > in the intellectual class or that is what I understand from your > mails. If that is what you meant, I am obliged to tell you something > in this regard. I am not a scholar, nor an academic, I don't have an > IIT/IIM degree or for that matter I don't even belong to any of the > premier educational institutions. I am a software professional by > qualification but I don't work for any corporate (I am not intending > too) and I do not have access to really big money and I never had it > too. On top of all I am not even half your age. But I do know what > our society is, where I stand in it, what it needs and what my > accountability to the society is etc, if not to your levels and I > strongly believe I would learn it with age and I am of the opinion > that yours' is not the only way to do it. > > Well if you feel there is no ideological base in this thread, I would > be happy to straighten it out. I would be very glad to explain my > stand if you can kindly point out where I have erred in logic. Since > you have raised this point of ideology and logic, I would also like to > ask you something in this regard, which I feel you would be more than > willing to answer and clear my doubts. In your replies, you have > visualized BM as the elite class and that you are willing to stand > with the under privileged class. This, if I am not wrong, is a > Marxist stand. This being the case, are you working towards social > reconstruction or are you marching towards a revolution to overthrow > the elite class and put the subaltern class in a better position. If > this is not the case and if you are not a Marxist by ideology why > shouldn't I tell that you are pulling up ideologies at will to justify > the points you are willing to convey through that mail. How would you > logically justify Gandhian ideology and Marxism in a single mail? > While you criticize the mails for being philosophically loaded, > intellectual, heavy but hollow words etc, how would you explain this > act of pulling Marxism out of no where, into this issue, though you > are not putting it in direct words? > I presume that you had realized that people passing out of the > premier educational institutions are doing so only to get an identity > and security, long before this issue has come up. If that is the > case, why did you need those identities in your mail and you are yet > to answer this question of mine. Also, what made you change it? You > also claim to have the mass support. I guess that it was that section > of masses which were underprivileged that you were working for and so > would you like to say that these identities and securities were > absolutely immaterial for your works? > > When a person is dying in the ocean you may jump in it, > even if you don't know swimming, to save him. I would like to > appreciate this tendency of yours and I bet not many would have this > guts. You may even succeed in saving the person, even if you yourself > don't know swimming. But how many times can you do the same. If for > instance, if you happen to drown (God Forbid) during the second such > incident, what is the plight of the persons who would fall in the same > ocean after that. We do not want one such scenario to come up and our > intentions are to develop such a situation whereby nobody falls into > the ocean again. We may be slow but sure to reach there or at least > initiate the process which would be continued by the forthcoming > generations. > > As you have chosen not to reply in this chain anymore, I > would request you to post me a reply to my inbox at least and I am > eagerly awaiting it. > > B.Surendran > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ................................................................................................................... Please visit our Annual Work Report, Articles and try to make a comment-- www.localgovernance.org/workreport001.html www.localgovernance.org/videos.html www.localgovernance.org/socialownershipintro.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.localgovernance.org/family.html [ we work for SOCIAL DEMOCRACY, SOCIAL OWNERSHIP, SOCIAL ECONOMY, SOCIAL EDUCATION, SOCIAL THOUGHTS, TRIBAL SOCIETY, AGRO-INDUSTRIAL-ECONOMY and SOCIAL VALUES] == 4 of 4 == Date: Wed, Oct 24 2007 12:00 am From: "Surendran B" very true.. sorry i happened to mis judge your age rather i never saw it On 10/24/07, Vivek Umrao Glendenning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Respected Surendran Ji, > You are much more than half of my age. I will be 31 years in age on 27th > of November. > I hope you are about 20 to 25 years in age. > Rest is fine. > love > vivek > > *From:* Surendran B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > *Sent:* Monday, October 22, 2007 12:37 AM > *To:* BM_discussion@googlegroups.com > *Cc:* Group BM General Body <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > *Subject:* [BM_discussion] Re: Fw: Brotherhood: Humanity: Social Working: > Priorities in individual life > > Dear Mr.Vivek > > First of all I m pleasantly surprised by your decision to include me in > the intellectual class or that is what I understand from your mails. If > that is what you meant, I am obliged to tell you something in this regard. > I am not a scholar, nor an academic, I don't have an IIT/IIM degree or > for that matter I don't even belong to any of the premier educational > institutions. I am a software professional by qualification but I don't > work for any corporate (I am not intending too) and I do not have access to > really big money and I never had it too. On top of all I am not even half > your age. But I do know what our society is, where I stand in it, what it > needs and what my accountability to the society is etc, if not to your > levels and I strongly believe I would learn it with age and I am of the > opinion that yours' is not the only way to do it. > > Well if you feel there is no ideological base in this thread, I would be > happy to straighten it out. I would be very glad to explain my stand if > you can kindly point out where I have erred in logic. Since you have > raised this point of ideology and logic, I would also like to ask you > something in this regard, which I feel you would be more than willing to > answer and clear my doubts. In your replies, you have visualized BM as > the elite class and that you are willing to stand with the under privileged > class. This, if I am not wrong, is a Marxist stand. This being the case, > are you working towards social reconstruction or are you marching towards a > revolution to overthrow the elite class and put the subaltern class in a > better position. If this is not the case and if you are not a Marxist by > ideology why shouldn't I tell that you are pulling up ideologies at will to > justify the points you are willing to convey through that mail. How would > you logically justify Gandhian ideology and Marxism in a single mail? While > you criticize the mails for being philosophically loaded, intellectual, > heavy but hollow words etc, how would you explain this act of pulling > Marxism out of no where, into this issue, though you are not putting it in > direct words? > I presume that you had realized that people passing out of the > premier educational institutions are doing so only to get an identity and > security, long before this issue has come up. If that is the case, why > did you need those identities in your mail and you are yet to answer this > question of mine. Also, what made you change it? You also claim to have > the mass support. I guess that it was that section of masses which were > underprivileged that you were working for and so would you like to say that > these identities and securities were absolutely immaterial for your works? > > > When a person is dying in the ocean you may jump in it, even > if you don't know swimming, to save him. I would like to appreciate this > tendency of yours and I bet not many would have this guts. You may even > succeed in saving the person, even if you yourself don't know swimming. But > how many times can you do the same. If for instance, if you happen to > drown (God Forbid) during the second such incident, what is the plight of > the persons who would fall in the same ocean after that. We do not want > one such scenario to come up and our intentions are to develop such a > situation whereby nobody falls into the ocean again. We may be slow but > sure to reach there or at least initiate the process which would be > continued by the forthcoming generations. > > As you have chosen not to reply in this chain anymore, I would > request you to post me a reply to my inbox at least and I am eagerly > awaiting it. > > > On 10/20/07, Vivek Umrao Glendenning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > *From:* Social Ownership <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > *Sent:* Saturday, October 20, 2007 8:40 AM > > *To:* Dr. Kamal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > *Cc:* Bharat Shilpi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > *Subject:* Brotherhood: Humanity: Social Working: Priorities in > > individual life > > > > Respected Dr. Saheb, > > Sorry i am not anyone's big brother. I am too younger in age. Sorry i am > > a common man and like to stand with common man. I am hard in my daily life > > also if there is anything against common man. Sorry only to get some > > praising from Elite Group i can not leave my stand. > > > > I know very well the sensitivities of you all in various social issues > > for last two years. I know it very well. Please go and evaluate the works > > and stand of BM including Dr Ravi and off course your also. Still i have a > > question, a moral question that when you should work, when society needs you > > or based on your own life style calculations. How can you join your hand > > with exploited society even you are also contributing very well in the > > exploitation of society. Even these questions look stupid to you all, but if > > you will be able to answer only then you will be able to work for society in > > real sense. > > > > I can not stop you to think based on your own conditioning but i can say > > one thing that you were wrong and are wrong in evaluation. > > May be you think in your mind that you are very right, but i know that > > you or Dr ravi or others knew from your childhood that your society is > > suffering and is being exploited but you opted to not work for society (you > > had options, everyone has options), it was your own choice. Society was not > > in priority from your childhood and still society is not in your priority > > (then why should i take your evaluation or advices seriously? please do not > > mind it). > > > > Suppose one person is dying in a ocean, what i will do, even i do not > > know swim but i will throw myself in ocean. What you will do, you will go to > > learn swimming and then you will go to arrange for two life jackets and > > ropes then you will go in ocean, but till then......(you can think easily, > > what you will get in ocean) and because you will go to learn in a swimming > > institute and to get life jackets thus people will know that you are going > > to save a life you will be praised and also will get media publicity and > > also will get award (it is sure by this mean you will be a very big Social > > Worker as Dr Reddy mentioned in his mail for Dr Ravi). In this story, i will > > be feeling exactly same thing as that man, i will be also seeing my death > > then me and that guy both will try our best to save our lives together and > > we will also feel brotherhood and this feeling of brotherhood and i will be > > able to understand live experience of his pain and it will not be > > advertised. And in this incident i would have learnt swimming also and will > > be moving to be a human being (not a social worker). You can make thousands > > of logics but i know very well that there are millions of millions persons > > are dying and numbers of life jackets are very less in number. > > > > I entered in social activism when i was less than 15 years in my age, no > > body trusted me that i will continue in works but they have left and i am > > still here, many persons have told me that i am rude thus i will not have > > committed friends. > > But i know that i have lots of friends with commitment and have mass > > support also, but i always face problems from Elite Class as i have been > > facing in BM. I have decided that i will stand with non-privileged class. > > > > Except me who is criticizing Dr Ravi? No one? > > I know that Dr Ravi and you are not very honest this is why you do not > > like my critics. If you will start to see with depth then you will get that > > if i have ego then i have base for it and you have baseless ego. If i have > > ego and non-polite guy then how mass is giving its support to me. I think > > manners, attitudes, and other similar things are just for Elite Groups, > > still these words need to be defined. Why should i follow definitions of > > Elite Group? > > I wait your conditioned, biased and full of logics reply. > > > > You evaluate via Emails, i evaluate by actions and activities and live > > behaviour. You guys are evaluating Dr Ravi because he writes good language > > mail. I evaluate by his actions. You feel that he is walking in truth > > because he writes long article on truth, i want to ask a simple question > > that why he mobilize BM members to become General Secretary of BM even he > > came just for few months in India (under which type of Truth and Gandhian > > Ideology?). You trust him in his statement of Village Economy because his > > dreams are very good in his writings but i want to know that by getting > > money from outside and by having a luxurious Ashram how he will move towards > > Village Economy (Economy means Currency?). You are saying that Dr Ravi ji is > > polite and sensitive, only because he speaks very soft in language and in > > mails. I think that he is an very violent man he mobilized BM members to > > become General Secretary even he had no moral rights for it, he has not > > practical experiences but he is mobilizing only by emails that he should be > > granted 9 Million Rs in next few years. He opted to leave India and spent > > his quality years in USA and will spend remain energetic (what is the base > > of his sensitivity?). For you he can be very sensitive, i know that because > > people are not very aware thus people will be with him because of his many > > illusions. > > But my questions are only because he makes lots of too heavy statements > > that he walks in truth, high moral values and in Gandhian Ideology, he > > provides me opportunity to ask questions by his own statements as i give > > opportunity to you to write negative mails to me. (i hope you will try to > > understand my points above than your identity, high personality and ego (not > > giant)). > > > > One more thing, i always reply, even i am criticized by you or others > > because communication break is not a good thing. > > I went to Gwalior to meet BM members including but Dr Ravi had no time > > to have talk with me, because he is perfect and has perfect understanding > > thus he does not need any learning. It is because of Egos of IIT, Singapore, > > $ and USA. I know some young BM members, they have much better understanding > > of society than Dr Ravi but they have not back up of USA, $ or also not from > > any Dr Reddy, Dr Kamal and others. > > > > Respected Dr. Akalpita Ji, > > India is in very critical state, it needs very hard TAPASYA, not less > > than this. Society is not a joke or a toy for Elites that it should be > > played as they want. BM member called me for one hour and spoke to me heavy > > philosophical words on Flood with high sensitivity but till now those BM > > members are not anywhere in action. People are interested to work on > > T-Sunami but not in Flood, because T-Sunami was an international media > > publicity also, but Flood is not a media publicity. In flood, there are more > > continuous sufferings than one time T-Sunami. Have you visited damaged > > Villages of Earth Quakes? Just after few months, anyone can go and can > > evaluate the alive examples of manners and sensitivities of our Elite > > Groups. > > > > I live with painful society directly. I am totally unable to understand > > heavy but hollow wordings of ........ > > Sorry for my disabilities. > > love > > vivek > > > > Rest is on you. > > love > > vivek > > > > > > > > > > On 10/20/07, Dr. Kamal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vivek, > > > Even in your apologies (if you seriously meant them) gives a clear > > > indication of your giant ego and that you seem to have been hurt at the > > > attempt of people to just tell you to mend your ways and appreciate > > > efforts > > > of others. > > > I wish God gives you enough time and patience to mend your publicly > > > non-defensible writings and be better known as a very sensible social > > > worker > > > for the last society. I know you do not need any certificate for that but > > > whats the harm in appreciating and not looking down upon other's efforts, > > > you will only see there are more friends along your journey to support and > > > appreciate your efforts (I know you do not need them)...and in the process > > > we will be able to make 1+1=11 for the common society. Everybody will > > > benefit from that, even the last man, let the positive energies flow, even > > > in a child or an MNC millionaire. If you have the guts and leadership > > > ability to bring together such efforts on a common platform, that will be > > > your golden contribution to the society...I am not only talking about > > > money > > > but efforts in kind. But till you are able to unite the efforts, you > > > seriously need to learn to be positive and shed your ego or else let > > > others > > > do what they want and do not criticise them. Remember, every bit of > > > criticism can only lower the morale of people because it is coming from > > > YOU > > > who is a veteran in this field. But being a big brother calls for more > > > maturity and understanding. > > > Hope your future glows more positive than today and let the common man > > > benefit. Take this positively, you may like to react as always but if only > > > you would be able to see the positive energy within... > > > Regards. > > > Dr.Kamal > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/19/07, Vivek Umrao Glendenning <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > > > > > *Respected Dr Ravi Kant Ji, Dr Reddy Ji, Dr Kamal Ji, Surendran Ji, > > > > Ranjan Ji and others* > > > > > > > > *I apologize for my all mails. I think, I should not reply in mails. > > > > I have understood that BM is a great organization and all are great. > > > > * > > > > *Respected Brothers and Sisters,* > > > > *Please this time forgive me, I will try my best to not put my leg > > > > in any discussion or matter.* > > > > *I hope I will be forgiven.* > > > > *Please Respected Dr Reddy Ji forgive me, Please Surendran Ji > > > > forgive me, Please Dr Ravi Kant Pathak Ji forgive me, Please Dr Kamal > > > > Kishore Sharma ji forgive me, Please Ranjan Ji forgive me, Please all BM > > > > members forgive me. * > > > > *I promise, I will try to praise BM and its members by accepting > > > > their greatness and completeness.* > > > > > > > > *love* > > > > *vivek* > > > > *ps- please forgive me, please accept my apology. please.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [BM_discussion] Re: Uniting and Rejunvenating BM > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vivek > > > > > > > > I hate to entre in to any debate. But, now, I request you, stop it. > > > > I agree with you regarding asking for money in such large quantities. I > > > > donot find any logic. Money should come automatically when the work > > > > needs > > > > it. First one has to start working. > > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > > Tum bahut muh fat ho. > > > > Kya tumhara yaha manana hai ki tapsya sirf jangal me ya himalay > > > > jaisi pahdiyon me ki ja sakti hai? Kya nagarme rehene walonme koi tapswi > > > > nahi banta? > > > > > > > > Kya manav jatiko sevake liye ghar bar chhodneki aawashyakta hai? Ky > > > > koi apni jagaha, apne kartavyanko nibhate huve logonki seva karte hi > > > > nahi? > > > > > > > > Maan liya ki tum is dishame sabse bahut hi aage ho. > > > > Mera manana hai ki tumne pichhle janam me chhoda huva adhura kaam > > > > aage badhaya hai. Us vaqt jab kaam chalu kiya tha, tumhari umra kya > > > > hogi? > > > > > > > > Jo tum kah rahe ho, danke ki chot par tab kahana jab tumhari santan > > > > ho. Jab tumhari santan ek kadam chalegi, usko bahut khushi hogi. Tab > > > > kya tum > > > > kahoge ki isme kaunsi badi bat hai? Mai to marethon daud chuka hun. > > > > > > > > Koi bhi kisibhi umarme agar ek kadam bhi chale to uski sarahana > > > > karna sikho. Tum bade ho hi. Dusron ko chhota dikhake kya tum aaur bade > > > > ban > > > > jaoge? > > > > > > > > Vidya vinayena shobhate, yah sahi hai ki ya fir > > > > Vidya vinayena na shobhate? > > > > > > > > Ek bat pakki than lo. Ma kabhi kharidi nahi ja sakti. aaur, agar > > > > bachheko sahi rasta na dikhaye to vaha maa nahi hoti. So mai to tumhe > > > > batati > > > > hi rahungi. > > > > > > > > Remember > > > > they also serve who only stand and wait. > > > > > > > > abhi logon ne aage badhna shuru kiya hai. Jis disha me tum choti par > > > > ho. unki sarahana karna sikho. Na ki unko chot panhuchao. Isase tumhare > > > > vyaktimatvako char chand lag jayenge. > > > > > > > > Tum kitnebhi naraj ho jao. Mai jitni tumhari sarahana karti hun, > > > > utnahi tumhe samzane ka haq rakhti hun. > > > > > > > > ek bar fir spashta kardun. tumhara batana galat nahi hai. Bataneka > > > > tarika, dhang galat hai. > > > > > > > > Akalpita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit our Annual Work Report, Articles and try to make a > > comment-- > > > > www.localgovernance.org/workreport001.html > > www.localgovernance.org/videos.html > > www.localgovernance.org/socialownershipintro.htm > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > www.localgovernance.org/family.html > > > > [ we work for SOCIAL DEMOCRACY, SOCIAL OWNERSHIP, SOCIAL ECONOMY, > > SOCIAL EDUCATION, SOCIAL THOUGHTS, > > TRIBAL SOCIETY, AGRO-INDUSTRIAL-ECONOMY > > and > > SOCIAL VALUES] > > > > > > > > > -- > B.Surendran > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ................................................................................................................... > Please visit our Annual Work Report, Articles and try to make a comment-- > > www.localgovernance.org/workreport001.html > www.localgovernance.org/videos.html > www.localgovernance.org/socialownershipintro.htm > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > www.localgovernance.org/family.html > > [ we work for SOCIAL DEMOCRACY, SOCIAL OWNERSHIP, SOCIAL ECONOMY, > SOCIAL EDUCATION, SOCIAL THOUGHTS, > TRIBAL SOCIETY, AGRO-INDUSTRIAL-ECONOMY > and > SOCIAL VALUES] > > > > -- B.Surendran ============================================================================== You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BM_discussion" group. 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