[uucdigest] Friday, February 11 2000 Volume 03 : Number 241 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Visit http://www.bubbaclub.com | www.bimmers.com - "serving enthusiasts on the 'net" | Visit http://www.bimmer.org - ultimate BMW bulletin boards! | Subscribe to the Zionsville Autosport Parts Digest: | http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/majordomo.htm ����������������������������������������� In this BMW UUC Digest: [uuc] To: "'Bubbadigest'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Re: [uuc] Re: Deactivating/removing E34 airbag RE: [uuc] Stupid!! - Really? Re: [uuc] To: "'Bubbadigest'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [uuc] <E28><535is><sport seats> Fixing loose seats RE: [uuc] E30 fog light questions [uuc] RE: One Last M5 PLUS Viper Post Re: [uuc] VANOS question (was piston update) Re: [uuc] Re: Deactivating/removing E34 airbag [uuc] <WOB> Airbags Re: [uuc] Deactivating/removing E34 airbag (long) Re: [uuc] Re: Deactivating/removing E34 airbag ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:53:56 -0800 From: "Chao, Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] To: "'Bubbadigest'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Matthew said: >Windbags, er airbags aren't all they're cracked up to be. Just ask >the KC Chiefs player that was killed when his Stupid Useless Vehicle >rolled - no seatbelt BUT lots of windbags. With respect and no flames intended: Of the three people in the car, two died and one essentially walked away. The one who survived had his seat belt on. Don't know if there was an airbag correlating to his seating position - but my understanding is he remained in the car until it came to rest. Of the two fatalities, neither was wearing his seat belt and both were ejected from the car in the course of the accident. Airbags were intended to provide additional frontal ( and now side impact) protection with seat bags from IMPACT, not ejection from the passenger compartment. Another notable example: Who survived the MB "Princess Diana" accident - the ONE person wearing his seat belt! Just got my copy of my insurance company (USAA) magazine - one of the lead items is that one of their insurance adjusters had an offset head on in a late model Ford Taurus (?) which was equivalent to 95 mph into a wall - she walked away with minor bruises (to her arms - ? - don't remember for sure, but definitely minor considering!). Airbags and seatbelts. Harvey - I live with fear, death, and evil...but I used to be able to turn it off and use a Mac. " Author Unknown - Dragged over to the "Dark Side" under duress This day, Thursday, 9/16/99 - - A dark day indeed! - Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product. -- Ferenc Mantfeld ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:57:09 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Yip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Deactivating/removing E34 airbag What can I say - Rob's a freak (of nature that is) - --- Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There is no way your body can force open a door without killing > you. The door opened due to the massive deformation of the car. Sometimes you are good, sometimes you are lucky. It is better to be lucky than good. ===== Matthew Yip [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/mgyip/ '87 GTi 16v - x2 '88 M5 '99 F350 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:04:25 -0800 From: "John Coffin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Stupid!! - Really? I can say from experience in 60mph head on crash, my seat belts did not damage my ribs, internal organs, or hit my head on the steering wheel. I had a mark on my shoudler and a bruised knee. If air bags only save 175lb males, it's going to be a lonely place. - -John - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Gary Derian Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 8:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] Stupid!! - Really? In frontal impacts above 30 mph, a single diagonal seat belt will damage your ribs and internal organs. Also your head will hit the wheel and your neck will get severely strained. These are the circumstances where an air bag will help. We can debate what federal regulations should have been but the fact is air bags are here so why not use them? Even if they provide benefit in only 5% of crashes, we should take advantage of that. Especially if you are near the 175 lb healthy male that they were designed for. If you are a short elderly woman, you should disconnect the air bags because they will hurt you. The federal regulations are flawed by mandating that air bags be designed for those who don't wear belts instead of designing them for those who do wear belts. Regardless, they still offer a benefit for belted passengers who are properly positioned. Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Joe opines, with regard to airbag removal: > >>Other than it being a really stupid thing to do, it would all but kill > resale value. I think > >>you have to sign a release form too! > >>I've seen wooden airbag BMW wheels for about $650 - $850. > >>Is a stylish wheel worth you (sic) life? > > Check the facts: airbags provide benefit in less than 5% of circumstances if > the driver is wearing a seat belt. (Much greater if not.) If the original > poster always belts up, then the additional benefit of an airbag is > marginal. I'd like a kill switch for all the airbags in my car personally, > and I'd happily sign any release. As other posters have mentioned - airbags > are not nearly as good as they're cracked up to be, and while every life > saved is valuable, the $40bn that airbags have cost car buyers over the > years put the cost of saving each life at something like $5mn. There must > be a more cost-effective way to save lives than this. Estimates also place > the number of children killed by airbags at nearly 100, but I'm not even > going to get into that. > > You may be right about resale value though. > > C. > > 99 M3 <--- just got recall notice for side airbags that said to avoid > excessive speed when near potholes or curbs or on rough roads. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:06:30 -0500 From: Chaz Yoon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] To: "'Bubbadigest'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 08:53:56AM -0800, Chao, Harvey wrote: > Another notable example: Who survived the MB "Princess Diana" accident - > the ONE person wearing his seat belt! A program on TDC concerning accident reconstruction showed how a simulations design group were able to use witness accounts, physical evidence, and educated guesses to reconstruct this accident through computer simulations. They analyzed the skid marks and the outcome of the simulation to determine almost precisely the speed and attitude of the car throughout the accident, from losing control to final resting place. After tuning the model to get the car exactly right, they modeled the interior of the Mercedes (the frame was modeled for the simulation) and used an off-the-shelf model of a woman to represent Princess Diana. They ran the simulation again, this time observing how she was tossed around in the car, resulting in the fatal injuries. Finally, they ran the simulation with seatbelts on her. The results were very convincing: had she worn a seat belt, she would have decellerated with the car and she would have walked away with minor bruises to the chest and limbs. Chaz - -- Chaz Yoon http://christabel.mit.edu/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:36:34 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] <E28><535is><sport seats> Fixing loose seats I finally broke down yesterday and removed the power sport seats from my '87 535is (141,000 miles). The prior owner, like me, was a bit of a lug (200 lbs +), and so something had worked loose in driver's seat, resulting in lopsided seating position and that dreaded sagging seatback. While seats were out, I did what I usually do with other cars: I swapped the two front seats. Driver now has a relatively unmolested sport seat, so very comfortable. I'll provide details of the simple swap to anyone interested. The thigh bolster switch was really the only trick. Question: how to remedy the sagging seat back? I have scanned the FAQ's with no luck. Is it that the cable-operated mechanism which controls seat back angle is worn? seems that's where the play is. I know others have struggled with this, on other power seats. Any tips appreciated. Best regards, Bill McMahon Oakland, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:38:33 -0800 From: "Derek van Veen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] E30 fog light questions Try swapping the bulb with the working fog light. If the known good bulb works, you just need a new bulb. If it doesn't work, then there may be something else wrong (relay, fuse, wiring). To access the bulbs, you need to open the bottom of the foglight. See your Bentley manual for details. If you don't have a Bentley manual, try your local library or buy one. Best money you can spend on your car. - -Derek '90 325is > Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:33:11 -0600 > From: "Alarcon, Rob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: > > I just noticed that one of my fog lights is out. I have a 1990 325is > with the integrated fog lights and I'm wondering what I need to do to > replace them. Do I need just a bulb or the whole enchilada ? > Are there choices ? > > TIA for any help. > Robb A ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:47:52 -0800 From: "Jerry Chyo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: One Last M5 PLUS Viper Post You can't fight city hall (or logic in this case. Seems to me those who can afford one or the other may also have the resources to afford the other. BUY BOTH! I think I'd sleep in my garage if I owned both. I'm pretty sure the SO would insist on it since I just unloaded $140 Large on two cars. But hey. I'm a car guy. Jerry Chyo '88 M5 '99 M5 '99 Viper Damn. That looks nice. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:46:12 -0500 From: Felix Vicente <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] VANOS question (was piston update) > This VANOS piston thread piques a question. My wife's new to us '95 525iT > seems a little sluggish while driving around town, but I have nothing to > compare it to. All I know is its a lot slower than my M5. While > accelerating at full throttle, at about 5200 rpm, there is a sudden jump in > power from there to the shift point. The engine is supposed to make peak > torque at 4200 rpm so I expect peak acceleration (in a given gear) at that > rpm, not a jump in power way up the rpm range. This jump in power seems > like 2 more cylinders just cut in. Our '95 525iA demonstrated the same behavior until we chipped it recently. Kinda hard to explain, but the "boost" you're talking about was most noticeable in 3rd gear in our car. Despite popular opinion, the chip did make a noticeable difference in the car, particularly at the 3k rpms or so the tranny likes to keep you at during part-throttle accerelation. And no offense, but comparing any mere mortal BMW to an M5 (regardless of body style) is going to yield unfavorable results for the mortal car. I like to think our 525 is a smooth, silent, stately vehicle not really interested in even trying to keep up with all these other young whipper-snappers. ;) - -Felix Vicente Miami, FL (occasionally) '95 325i, blk/blk, BL/SS'd, X'd, chipped and M3 Muffler'd - my ride - somewhat fast '95 525ia, calypso/beige, chipped - sister's ride - peppy '98 740iL, white/beige, stock - mother's ride - it's nice to get pushed back into the seat, no? '99 ML430 - hey, dad wanted a minivan and we made him get this instead ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:45:23 -0500 From: "Rob Levinson - UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Deactivating/removing E34 airbag - ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Deactivating/removing E34 airbag > There is no way your body can force open a door without killing you. The > door opened due to the massive deformation of the car. Regardless of *why* the door opened, it *did*. > In your case, > the side air bag would have helped the seat belt keep you in. By itself, it > won't keep your 260 lb in the car. Sure - I'd never expect the airbag by itself to keep me in but my question was two-fold: 1) it's effectiveness without a door behind it 2) without a door, my body would still go out but would the bag, positioned by my head, catch my head and break my neck? > The Ford Excursion comes with an air bag > curtain designed to keep passengers inside in a rollover. That type would > help. Small consolation as the chances of me ever owning one of those is infinitely improbable. > What car was that? Cars with side air bags are much stronger than older > cars. 1987 RX-7 Turbo > ZR tires should be as good as or better than normal tires on wet > roads unless it is near freezing, the tires are bald, or there is standing > water. Old, polished concrete in the rain. There's an accident at the exact same spot practically 1 out of 5 times it rains, that's how bad it is. - - Rob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:56:37 -0500 From: "Osterbrink, Mark (AFS-Warren)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] <WOB> Airbags > It is well known that airbags only work properly when the occupant is > wearing their seatbelt. This is NOT true. Airbags are mandated to protect an unbelted adult male, which is why they are so effective at decapitating small women and children. If airbags were designed to work WITH seatbelts, they would only be powerful enough to restrain your head. Instead some clueless bureaucrat decided it would be better for his career to be known as the man who enabled all the morons drive around without seatbelts, and we have the mandate to protect an unbelted male. I know they were considering de-powering the airbags, after lots of evidence came in showing the effects on small people and children, but I'm not sure if this has been implemented or not. The amazing thing is that the government wouldn't admit that they were wrong, or that they were depowering the air bags. Instead, they changed the way the test was measured and insisted that their original requirements were correct. I'll take a roll cage and five point harness over airbags any day. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:59:05 -0800 From: "Darrel & Kalmia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Deactivating/removing E34 airbag (long) Greetings, Some people swear that they are useful, I have to disagree with having an explosive device within a foot or two of my face. I'll share my experience regarding an airbag though. Almost two years ago I was driving my 97 Honda Civic sedan (it was less than a year old) when a lady in a Suburban turned left in front of me. I was doing the speed limit (approx. 30 mph), the roads were bare and wet, I hit her right rear tire with the center of my car, then went under the back end as she had accelerated when she saw me though it was too late to avoid a collision. I can still replay the events in my mind. The airbags (both) deployed, the passenger side airbag broke the windshield, thankfully I was alone in the car at the time. The drivers side airbag, as it deployed, hit my right forearm and jerked it away from the wheel. I did have my hands in the proper 10/2 position, but I turned the wheel to the left in order to avoid her. Since then I have had occasions of extreme shoulder pain, and it has definitely effected how I use my right arm. I was belted in, and I'm 6' 3" so I was far enough away that all it hit was my arm. But as they deflated the car filled up with an acrid smoke, had I not already been stopped, this would have effected my ability to control the vehicle. Car and Driver over the years has had many articles on how air bags are dangerous. Could they save your life? Maybe, but might you come away from a minor collision with damaged joints or broken wrists, or worse if your a height challenged person that has to sit close to the steering wheel in order to reach the pedals? My BMW doesn't have airbags, my family car does, will I unhook them, no. But I don't think they are safe in every circumstance and I resent being "required" to have them in my vehicle as the government only allows you to disconnect them legally in certain circumstances. Not to mention the fit your insurance company would have if you got in a wreck and they found out they were unhooked. YMMV. Darrel 85 535i 95 Olds 88 LSS PS....The replacement of the airbags/controllers added $2000 to the repair price of the vehicle. : Windbags, er airbags aren't all they're cracked up to be. Just ask : the KC Chiefs player that was killed when his Stupid Useless Vehicle : rolled - no seatbelt BUT lots of windbags. Don't know if you've read : all the negatives to windbags - namely causing decapitation in : PROPERLY BELTED children and short folk. Side windbags that do the : same thing - do you really think this is a good thing too? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:01:45 -0800 From: Jerry Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Deactivating/removing E34 airbag "Joseph C. Volpe" wrote: > > Other than it being a really stupid thing to do, it would all but kill > resale value. I think you have to sign a release form too! > > I've seen wooden airbag BMW wheels for about $650 - $850. > > Is a stylish wheel worth you life? Well, Joe... My take on all this airbag stuff is that if they're so good, we'd see them in real race cars. I'll bet those professional racers making millions of dollars a year are just as concerned about living through a crash as we are - and the teams can certainly afford to put 'em in. I won't even get into the documented cases of death and injury caused by these "safety devices". To each his own. I've made my choice, and am quite comfortable with it, thank you. - -jerry ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #241 ************************** _________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | Bonneville Motorwerks . http://www.bonnevillemotorwerks.com | Circle Tire Co. 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