[uucdigest] Friday, February 11 2000 Volume 03 : Number 244 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Visit http://www.bubbaclub.com | www.bimmers.com - "serving enthusiasts on the 'net" | Visit http://www.bimmer.org - ultimate BMW bulletin boards! | Subscribe to the Zionsville Autosport Parts Digest: | http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/majordomo.htm ����������������������������������������� In this BMW UUC Digest: [uuc] Re: Re:airbag [uuc] Side Airbags [uuc] <E30> window motors Re: [uuc] RE: belts, bags, tall guys RE: [uuc] UUC Page of Fun [uuc] <E34> Front Suspension Help Please Re: [uuc] Side Airbags [uuc] RE: <WOB> Airbags Re: [uuc] Stupid!! - Really? Subject: [uuc] <E28><535is><sport seats> Fixing loose seats Subject: [uuc] <E28><535is><sport seats> Fixing loose seats [uuc] Air bag [uuc] Re: Driving instructions [uuc] Driving instructions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:30:55 -0500 From: "David Larocque - ColorImage" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Re:airbag >If you have any family, I send flowers after you horrible death! > >Joe >> I removed the airbag from my E30 318iS and never looked back. I wear either >> seatbelts or Schroth Rally 4s everytime I leave the driveway. Nice comment @ss wipe, Did you hit the snooze button on your brain this morning? While air bags have improved safety in a car its not as though not having an airbag means certain death. Seat belts and a little driver training will go a long way in helping you stay alive. '87 325 - no Air Bag, No ABS, how have I ever survived? '00 VW GTI - front and side airbags, ABS and a bunch of other safety equipment I hope to never have to use. David Larocque ColorImage Canada Inc 416-955-9636 x 736 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:27:59 -0800 From: Jim Ochi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Side Airbags At 02:39 PM 2/11/00 -0500, Gary Derian wrote: >A side airbag probably won't strangle you (after a few million >crashes with side airbags, you might find one where the passenger was >strangled, it might even be the first one) but don't fall asleep and lean on >the door of a side airbag equipped car (passengers only). A question about side airbags - I seem to remember reading a brochure on the BMW side airbag system while I was waiting for the dealer to do something or another to my car. From what I recall, the side airbag was a fabric tube that went from about dashboard height below the A pillar, to somewhere on the B pillar. It was concealed in the trim on the A pillar and above the door. When it inflates, the tube gets shorter, pulls out from under the trim, and ends up stretching straight between its two mounting points. Do the BMW side airbags still work this way, or have they changed to units mounted in the doors, or was the brochure just a drug-induced hallucination? If they do work this way, what's the danger of leaning on the door? Thanks, Jim Ochi [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:38:58 -0800 (PST) From: "K.C. Boyce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] <E30> window motors That skipping sound when you put your window up is due to a broken spring in the motor. This spring normally tells the motor when the window's closed so it will stop trying to close it. As long as the window still moves up and down okay, there's no pressing need to replace the window motor (unless you want to get rid of that annoying "clack clack clack" that results when you put the window up). KC Boyce '85 325e E30 Eta Page: http://rikki.coloradocollege.edu/~k_boyce/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:40:04 -0800 From: Jim Ochi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: belts, bags, tall guys At 12:20 PM 2/11/00 -0800, John Bolhuis wrote: > > That reminds me again how ticked off so many cars make me. What >about us tall 200 pounders? It's all a plot by the Trilateral Commission - due to better medical techniques and longer lifespans, the world is becoming overcrowded. If we eliminated all the tall 200 pounders, there would be more room for the rest of us. :-) Jim "...and I hate sitting behind tall people at the movies..." Ochi [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:59:36 -0500 From: "VincentMathew Malfa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] UUC Page of Fun Sorry Duane, no ducking responsibilty on this one! Possession being 9/10's of the law, that URL seems to point right to your establishment's web site. Admit it, that really is you on the intercom, isn't it? - -Matt - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Duane Collie Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 7:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] UUC Page of Fun > Hmmm, so I'm not the only one who recalls that rather delectable young > specimen from the no-loner-maintained "UUC Page of Fun?" Busted Drain-o! Vince, It's still there! Pat 'The Geeeeze" did it and I don't have a clue (nor do I want to learn) how to do HTML, so the page remains much as it did (ecazzzzatly as it did) in 1997. http://www.keepingroom.com/uuc/rabid2.html - - Duane Collie The Seven Sled ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:42:28 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] <E34> Front Suspension Help Please Hey All, About a month ago (800 miles or so) I replaced all 4 shocks with a set of Bilstein Sport mated to H&R springs. Love the ride and look of the car. Did the job with a friend, first suspension job for both of us. Anyway, sometimes when I am coming to a stop, the driver's side front area will make a noise. As the car comes to a stop (about 10 mph down) I will hear a little grinding noise occasionally that almost sounds as if the ABS is activating. No pedal pulse or extra distance, just a similar sound. Also, when I get out of the car the same side will pop 2 or 3 times, sounds like tapping on the bottom of the strut with a screw driver (the part that goes around the rotor). If you push down on the shock tower, will squeak as if You are, well messing around in a brass bed, squeek squeek squeek :o) :o) I jacked her up a few minutes ago, took off the wheel and did a quick check but to no avail. The car still drives great and the only odd handling characteristics is a pull to! ! wards the drivers side, but I have not yet done my allignment. That is coming in the next few hundred miles. Is it just a result of the new stiff ride?? Did I screw up my strut somehow while I had it out of my car?? Another suspension component ruined or a loose bolt?? Any suggestions or comments greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Best, Rory '90 525i P.S. Going to do my first valve adjustment on my old M20 next weekend and wondering if anyone has some tips or a good link on that also. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:14:12 -0500 From: "Dean Boucouras" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Side Airbags This is in response to Jim O's post There are side airbags and head airbags. They are actually 2 different airbags. The side airbag is built into the door. The head airbag is the tube like airbag that you described. One of our cars has both of them. Luckily I have not personally witnessed how they work. Dean ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:52:03 -0600 From: "Fadeev, Alex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: <WOB> Airbags "Osterbrink, Mark (AFS-Warren)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> opinionates: > > > It is well known that airbags only work properly when the > > occupant is wearing their seatbelt. > > This is NOT true. Airbags are mandated to protect an > unbelted adult male, A crucial additions would be "in a front impact crash". Then, of course, there are side/curtain/seat/etc airbags, but we will be raving about those in another thread. > I know they were considering de-powering the airbags, after lots > of evidence came in showing the effects on small people and > children, but I'm not sure if this has been implemented or not. Good to know that did not stop you from sharing with us your unbiased fact filled opinion. > The amazing thing is that the government wouldn't admit that > they were wrong, or that they were depowering the air bags. > Instead, they changed the way the test was measured and > insisted that their original requirements were correct. Wanna bet? Like Pat said, go read for yourself at: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/airbags/ > I'll take a roll cage and five point harness over airbags any day. And you will crack your head on the roll cage in a minor roll over. Congratulations and say hello to Darwin for us! alex f ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:55:01 -0600 From: Michael Weishaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Stupid!! - Really? Patrick Burns wrote: > > Quick story. > (snip) > Bad mouth airbags all you want, guys. I WATCHED one work. pretty amazing story, but being the devil's advocate, I could easily say: 1. You saw the accident 2. The airbag inflated 3. The driver walked away Did the airbag "save" her? I don't think you can say for sure. She had her seatbelt on too. I am not saying the airbag did or didn't save her. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't do anything. I just think people should have the choice. But people who don't wear seatbelts are more often than not turned into corned beef hash in accidents. Not wearing one is just plain stupid. Michael 88 M3 no airbag - woo hoo! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:56:00 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (atchison) Subject: Subject: [uuc] <E28><535is><sport seats> Fixing loose seats The metal frame of the seat is made of light gauge steel. I believe it is designed to give a little in an accident. Usually the upper right side of the drivers seat has this condition, maybe from reaching back into the rear seat area. The fix is reshape and weld the frame or buy a good used one and recover. >I finally broke down yesterday and removed the power sport seats from my '87 >535is (141,000 miles). The prior owner, like me, was a bit of a lug (200 lbs >+), and so something had worked loose in driver's seat, resulting in lopsided >seating position and that dreaded sagging seatback. > >While seats were out, I did what I usually do with other cars: I swapped the >two front seats. Driver now has a relatively unmolested sport seat, so very >comfortable. I'll provide details of the simple swap to anyone interested. >The thigh bolster switch was really the only trick. > >Question: how to remedy the sagging seat back? I have scanned the FAQ's >with no luck. Is it that the cable-operated mechanism which controls seat >back angle is worn? seems that's where the play is. I know others have >struggled with this, on other power seats. Any tips appreciated. > >Best regards, > >Bill McMahon >Oakland, CA >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:55:58 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (atchison) Subject: Subject: [uuc] <E28><535is><sport seats> Fixing loose seats The metal frame of the seat is made of light gauge steel. I believe it is designed to give a little in an accident. Usually the upper right side of the drivers seat has this condition, maybe from reaching back into the rear seat area. The fix is reshape and weld the frame or buy a good used one and recover. >I finally broke down yesterday and removed the power sport seats from my '87 >535is (141,000 miles). The prior owner, like me, was a bit of a lug (200 lbs >+), and so something had worked loose in driver's seat, resulting in lopsided >seating position and that dreaded sagging seatback. > >While seats were out, I did what I usually do with other cars: I swapped the >two front seats. Driver now has a relatively unmolested sport seat, so very >comfortable. I'll provide details of the simple swap to anyone interested. >The thigh bolster switch was really the only trick. > >Question: how to remedy the sagging seat back? I have scanned the FAQ's >with no luck. Is it that the cable-operated mechanism which controls seat >back angle is worn? seems that's where the play is. I know others have >struggled with this, on other power seats. Any tips appreciated. > >Best regards, > >Bill McMahon >Oakland, CA >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:07:51 -0500 From: "Anthony Dusovic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Air bag >Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:23:48 -0500 >From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [uuc] Stupid!! - Really? >What did you hit at 60? My example (sorry, I omitted the impacted object) >was 30 mph into the proverbial brick wall. Hitting anything softer than >that will drastically reduce your injuries. I am not defending the airbag >standards as they exist, just pointing out that they do help and it doesn't >make sense to disconnect them without a good reason. My mother-in-law is 67 >years old and 4'10" tall. I have disconnected her air bag, but not mine. So tell us the real reason why you disconnected your mother in laws air bag ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:02:08 -0500 From: Don Eilenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Driving instructions At 03:28 PM 2/11/00 -0500, Michael Fennell wrote: > > >On Fri, 11 Feb 2000, Don Eilenberger wrote: >> Well, my 17 year old drives an '86 Volvo 240 wagon (as close to >> a humvee as I can afford..) and also has gone to two schools >> specifically teaching skills teenage drivers CAN use to stay >> alive. I'd recommend either school: > >[snip] > >I was going to mention that DonE's son had taken the Driving Dynamic's >course and see what feedback he had about this. Fortunately, that >wasn't necessary. ;-) > >I can only speak for myself. Any instruction beyond typical use-your- >turn-signals-parallel-park-here blandness would probably have worked >against me. Skills I learned to get myself out of bad situations would >have been offset by an increased proclivity to get in them in the first >place. I was reasonably serious and understood (or at least knew about) >threshold braking, left foot braking, understeer/oversteer but was timid >enough to only try them in VERY controlled circumstances in the >Blandmobile. Legitimate training might have had me taking more chances. > >YMMV, as they say. > >Mike Mike - as you say - YMMV - but it almost sounds like you're advocating ignorance as bliss <grin>. The big plus of these schools - both of them was the students got to experience what it feels like when they're reaching the control limits (or passing them) of the car - and how to recover. Given the proclivity of a new driver to not know where these limits are - having some skill in recovering from stretching the limits is a GOOD THING. Could it cause the student to drive closer to the limits? Perhaps.. in the case of my son - he tends to drive over-cautiously and very non-agressively.. to the extent that when a passenger in the car with him, I'm sometimes am going "go, go, go.." in my head - much more frequently than I'm using the non-existant passenger brake pedal. (He claims he can tell how well he's driving by the number of thumps he hears from the passenger's seat.. and he's REALLY doing well if I fall asleep.. when I first was taking him out - my right foot got VERY sore. It's now usually falling asleep which is the problem.) Don't discount any advanced training with the fear that it will *cause* crashes. I ran a survey over on the REAL-BMW list - two wheeled ones - asking people who took advanced motorcycle training felt it increased them getting closer to the limits.. About 90% said 'no' - 5% said 'yes' and the other 5% were noncommital. The reason I was asking is a number of people who took the advanced courses HAD crashed and I wanted to know if the course was a contributing factor. In the responses I got from 'crashies' - they felt it might have been - and ended up in the 5% category. On the otherhand - - the vast majority of people stated they'd had no accidents since the courses and the courses had in many cases helped them avoid accidents. IF I had surveyed ONLY the people who crashed after taking the course - the percentage who felt the course MADE them ride faster/riskier and helped cause the crash would have been way over 50%.. but would not have been an accurate assesment. YMMV - in this case - I think the majority of teens would benefit from an advanced driving skills (not racing) course. Best, ____D_o_n__________S_p_r_i_n_g__L_a_k_e__H_t_s____________�1946________ Don Eilenberger, Spring Lk Hts, NJ http://www.monmouth.com/~deilenberger ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:03:59 -0500 From: Don Eilenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Driving instructions Mike, >Yip wrote: >> The only caveat >> is that parents need to teach their kids about using their knowledge >> intelligently. Racing is for race tracks and race cars. Driving is >> for everday. Don't get the two confused. > >You can teach a teenager anything you want, except maturity. The only >thing that kept my friends and I alive (did you know you can put a Honda >Accord on three wheels? we have photos) was the hopelessly under-capable >cars we drove. Sure, you can crash a 4 cylinder Chevy Celebrity if you >try hard enough but you're not going to be going 120 when you do it. >While I would have loved a performance driving school, I would have >only driven faster on the streets with my new found "skills". Maybe >others would have a smarter reaction. Bobbitted.. >Mike Fennell Well, my 17 year old drives an '86 Volvo 240 wagon (as close to a humvee as I can afford..) and also has gone to two schools specifically teaching skills teenage drivers CAN use to stay alive. I'd recommend either school: Driving Dynamics, Red Bank NJ - has an all day class on driving skills including threshold braking, accident avoidence, skid techniques, etc. Excellent course - good course material, and the kids liked it. Student uses their own car, drives it solo with a 2 way radio to the instructors.. Cost was about $350. Money well spent. BMW (you know them - they make motorcycles and a few cars..) Student Driving Course - comes to town with the Ultimate Driving Experience. About a 2 hour course - a very condensed version of the above course, using brand new 323/328's, 2 or 3 kids to a car, one instructor (supposedly race drivers - dunno exactly how this qualification is made - but they were good..) per car. Same sort of exercises.. Cost is zilch. Would have been worth spending some money for. The difference? Neither of these was a RACE school.. both were SAFE DRIVING schools with advanced accident avoidence techniques for teens. Best, ____D_o_n__________S_p_r_i_n_g__L_a_k_e__H_t_s____________�1946________ Don Eilenberger, Spring Lk Hts, NJ http://www.monmouth.com/~deilenberger ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #244 ************************** _________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | Bonneville Motorwerks . http://www.bonnevillemotorwerks.com | Circle Tire Co. 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