[uucdigest] Tuesday, March 21 2000 Volume 03 : Number 480 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Visit http://www.bubbaclub.com | www.bimmers.com - "serving enthusiasts on the 'net" | Visit http://www.bimmer.org - ultimate BMW bulletin boards! | Subscribe to the Zionsville Autosport Parts Digest: | http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/majordomo.htm ����������������������������������������� In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] Cryogenic treatment for brake rotors -- snake oil, or not? [uuc] more about ford [uuc] Re: Ultimate Bimmer Re: [uuc] Re: Bmw/Honda Re: [uuc] FW: BPG Intake Shootout results [uuc] Re: [uucdigest] V3 #470 [uuc] 635 shimmy Re: [uuc] <E30> Speaker wiring [uuc] <E30> looking for used ICV to tear apart and investigate [uuc] Re: BMW/Honda [uuc] Re: Honda/BMW [uuc] RE: Need Anti TRX propaganda ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:37:39 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Cryogenic treatment for brake rotors -- snake oil, or not? Cryo treatment of certain steels, is a continuation of the quench portion of heat treating. I causes more of the retained austenite to be converted to martensite, the hard part of heat treated steel. For non-steel, cryo stress relieves so that there is much less distortion (warping) with heating. Olympic rifle barrels are cryo treated to maintain shooting accuracy when the barrel gets hot. Space structures are cryo treated to reduce warping when subjected to the uneven heating in space (hot sun on one side, frigid in the shady side). Cryo treatment of brake rotors has the potential of reducing warping from track use. I don't know if it really works, though. Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > So, I always thought this process was BS (you know looks like BS, > smells like BS, ...). All placebo effect, much like loud exhausts, > or, for that matter, most of the rest of "no downsides performance" > products aftermarket industry peddles. I mean, in a mass-production > environment it would probably cost pennies to cryo-treat everything, > and I am not aware of manufacturers actually doing it. Admittedly, > all correlation, rather than cause/effect type of evidence, but I felt > it was strong enough. > > Now, I've learned that local track buddies (Hi Jim & Donna :-), sane > enough looking people (hehe), are cryo-treating their rotors. Being > an open-minded person, I tried to find some evidence of cryo benefits > on the Net. I failed. All that I saw was pseudo-science description > of the process by vendor and multiple "testimonials". I'll stick to > cheaper forms of placebo, thank you very much (now, where did I put > those fuzzy dice :-) > > So, is anyone aware of any evidence, for or against the process? I am > thinking either proper scientific study published in some SAE journal, > or, perhaps, material science journal. Conditions of use under which > improvement was shown/not shown would be important. It would most > interesting if conditions were similar to brake rotor duty. > > An indirect evidence like "Caterpillar cryo treats rotors on their > trucks, and what's good enough for Cat is good enough for me," would > be interesting too. > > I suspect some of the digesters have material science background. > Please chime in. > > Gleb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:52:12 CST From: "cody williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] more about ford >Is this why the mustang now has a smaller engine with less horsepower? >because they are "car guys"? In reality the mustang is more powerful than the past. 1995- 302 2v motor. hp-240hp,torque-285 foot-lb. for the standard Cobra. I believe that the Cobra r produced around 300 horses and 325 foot-lb. from its 351 2v. In 2000 the Cobra produces 320 horses, and 385 horses and foot pounds for the Cobra r. the 2000 also has an independent rear end. The motors are smaller respectively, but definetly more powerful. Not everything they have done is been stupid. Cody Williams 90 325is, 167 hp ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:03:07 -0500 From: "Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Ultimate Bimmer Overall, the hardest part of this job would be finding the E30iT body in the US. S52, 4wd, not a problem. A combination of parts from the E36 332iS, E34 M50 525iX and the E30 325iX. And I don't just mean mechanicals. Floor pan comes to mind....... Was there a 325iX touring? 'Cause if there was, that is where you want to start. Oh, one problem would be the cost of replacement transfer cases. Damn things don't last past 60K miles with an M20B25, you want an S52B32, you gotta pay. Koala Motorsport would gladly build this car for you K.C. You got cash? ;-) Brett Anderson www.koalamotorsport.com Home of the E30 M3 CD-ROM repair manual > From: "K.C. Boyce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [uuc] Ultimate Bimmer > > All this talk of bringing back the E30 and Jerry's iX tale have got me > thinking... > > I now really REALLY want to build an E30 332iTX. That is: > > E30 iT body shell > E30 M3 fenders (bolt on in the front, lotsa welding in the back) > E30 iX drivetrain > S52 3.2; maybe its Euro counterpart. > > Does anyone know if the oilpan from the new 3.0 will bolt into the S52? > And, a more important question, does anyone with deep pockets want to > finance my little daydream? > > KC Boyce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:01:57 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Bmw/Honda The NSX has specific tires for each corner of the car. The plies are laid up in opposite directions for each side to aid the pre-loading of the chassis. That plus lots of rear toe-in as Don mentioned helps the responsiveness. Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Chaz made one point I want to respond to: > > >The NSX, for example, is a fine example of a car which is in a niche > >market. Sure you can get a faster car for less money -- a Mustang > >Cobra will probably beat it in a drag race with plenty of money to > >modify its suspension to give it a run for its money through the > >twisties. But it shoots for a market which is unique: to build an > >expensive sports car that wealthy executives won't wrap themselves > >around a tree with. > > Recently I finally got to the bottom of something that has always > puzzled me; why the NSX goes through rear tires every 5000 miles. > > They have the rear tires toed in, so that the car's perceived > response to steering input is razor-sharp. This is impressive > engineering? yikes! We owned an Integra BTW and loved it, but I > don't even want an NSX. > > Imagine, you cannot drive the car from El Lay to Noo Yawk and back > without buying a new set of tires along the way.... > > Surely there must be a better way. > > I do agree that Honda could build a "BMW" if it chose to, but I am > certain that we could all tell the difference too. > > DC > -- > ___________________ > Donald Chris Cicchetti > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > DC Technologies, San Diego, CA > Recording, CD Mastering > Sound System Design and Install > Video, & Live Sound support. > __________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:57:36 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] FW: BPG Intake Shootout results I visited the site and I am curious why there was a nearly constant torque boost through the rpm range. I would expect that a low restriction intake would have nearly no improvement at low rpm and a steadily improve, relative to stock, as power and air flow increases. Perhaps there are some other effects here such as altering the air flow sensor readings causing a change in the fuel mixture. Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Here's a little tip for around the home when posting long (or any) URLs: > use these brackets around them <>. This lets e-mail and other programs > know there's a link, e-mail address, or other such object coming and not > to truncate it. Watch how smoothly this works: > > <http://www.b-p-g.com/products/news_by_bpg/intake_shootout/intake_shootout.h tml> > -- > Ron Katona ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:02:57 CST From: "cody williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: [uucdigest] V3 #470 I also unearthed a un speakable, under performance, when the suspension comes up, it has a catagory for lift kits. I had been thinking of putting some 35''tires on the old e30. Also, anyone that has any 17'' rims to fit an e30 for sale, please email me directly. Thanks, Cody Williams 90 325is, 12" superlift still on backorder. > >The last message Don E. sent reminded me of a recent un*speakable horror. >While browsing through carparts.com, a search on rear brake parts for my >E28 535 unearthed a scary possibility: > >Most of my BMW's brake system (rotors,seals, calipers) could be replaced >with gen-u-ine AC-Delco parts...... > >Check those used BMWs twice before you buy! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:37:22 -0800 From: Polands <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] 635 shimmy Brian Collins wrote: Subject: [uuc] 635 shimmy I've got an occasional shake, oscillation or shimmy in the front of my 86 635. It generally happens at speed when one wheel hits a pronounced bump. An oscillation of the steering wheel begins which sometimes last a second or two, and other times, it gets stronger and requires nearly bringing the car to a halt to get it to stop. The car has been lowered an inch or so and has Bilstein sport shocks. Both tie rods and the center link are new. Has anyone had this problem and if so, have you found the fix for it? - -- Brian, this sounds like totally shot thrust arm bushings to me. I do remember experiencing this, worst when in studed tire ruts with an overlay of bumps in the road. I suspect another more common symptom is a tendency to leap from lane to lane in a rutted highway when you go to change lanes. I had urethane busings put in, and the car became extremely tractable, (although a bit "thumpy" on expancion joints for about a year). Many, many other digesters have installed the machined down 750 bushings from The Ultimate Garage with favorable results. Steve Poland '88 535is ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:42:45 -0800 From: Chris Baisley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] <E30> Speaker wiring Yes, it's true, the stock systems use common grounds in various ways. Check out the base and premium stereo info on my site at http:\\www.infomatch.com\~cbaisley John Blase's base stereo info should help you out Aziz! Chris - -- Christopher P. Baisley, MBA, P.Eng. Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Personal) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Business) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:47:27 PST From: "Chuck MacWilliam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] <E30> looking for used ICV to tear apart and investigate If anyone out there has a used ICV off of an E30 ('85 325e preferrably), I would like to have it so I can tear it apart and investigate its guts. I really want to know if it is repairable or not. Thanks. Chuck MacWilliam '92 525i; '85 325e; '90 Chevy Silverado http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/9057 Sacramento Valley Chapter - BMWCCA# 150982 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:02:57 -0500 From: "Joseph C. Volpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: BMW/Honda Why is it no one complains when a $80K 911 goes through tires in 5K miles but when a $80K NSX does it, they whine? BTW-since 1993, NSX's rear geometry has been extensively altered to eliminate tire ware, but keeps its excellent handling intact. All you need to do is drive one and you'll understand. And we seem to forget, it was Acura in 1986 and then Lexus and Infiniti in 1990 who forced BMW and Mercedes to start building cars that were more reliable, and less expensive to maintain. Those of us who can afford BMW's and Mercedes new still don't want to pay a fortune for maintenance and repairs. We have the Japanese to thank for waking the Germans up to that fact. Joe > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([uucdigest]) > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:47:36 -0500 (EST) > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [uucdigest] V3 #479 > > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:41:12 -0800 > From: Don Cicchetti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Bmw/Honda > > Chaz made one point I want to respond to: > >> The NSX, for example, is a fine example of a car which is in a niche >> market. Sure you can get a faster car for less money -- a Mustang >> Cobra will probably beat it in a drag race with plenty of money to >> modify its suspension to give it a run for its money through the >> twisties. But it shoots for a market which is unique: to build an >> expensive sports car that wealthy executives won't wrap themselves >> around a tree with. > > Recently I finally got to the bottom of something that has always > puzzled me; why the NSX goes through rear tires every 5000 miles. > > They have the rear tires toed in, so that the car's perceived > response to steering input is razor-sharp. This is impressive > engineering? yikes! We owned an Integra BTW and loved it, but I > don't even want an NSX. > > Imagine, you cannot drive the car from El Lay to Noo Yawk and back > without buying a new set of tires along the way.... > > Surely there must be a better way. > > I do agree that Honda could build a "BMW" if it chose to, but I am > certain that we could all tell the difference too. > > DC > - -- > ___________________ > Donald Chris Cicchetti > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > DC Technologies, San Diego, CA > Recording, CD Mastering > Sound System Design and Install > Video, & Live Sound support. > __________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:10:01 -0500 From: "Joseph C. Volpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Honda/BMW > > No BMW equivalent, but from everything I've heard - compared to Ferraris, > Corvettes, etc., the NSX gets damned with faint praise, "yes, it's nice." I've put over 100K miles on 2 NSX's without any of the expense or breakdowns that I went through in putting 100K miles on any of my 2 535i's. I guess it is good NOT to be a BMW in some circumstances. > >> or even an original Legend Coupe? > > Yes, and I'm still laughing. HMMM, I seem to remember that for HALF the price, a 1988 Legend coupe, Beat a 1988 635CSi in a 4 way Car and Driver comparison test. My 87 5 Speed LS Coupe was very pleasurable to drive. > >> Ever watch Speed Vision? The 6 year old Integra GS-R has as many wins as > the >> clubs racing M3's. That is saying something. > > Race cars don't count when comparing street car production. Any car can be > made into a great race car, see how many 320i owners will agree! It's like > they say of the Porsche 911... "you can't make a racehorse out of a pig, > but you can make a very, very fast pig." Actually they are Stock showroom class Integra's > > Joe BMW CCA Member 00 540i Sport 99 NSX-T 96 SC400 86 528e ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:31:52 +1100 From: "Thomas, Andrew j" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: Need Anti TRX propaganda Karl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: > Need Anti TRX propaganda > So, here's the deal ... I'd love to be able to justify 16" > wheels and tires on at least semi-sincere financial and safety > grounds so my "financial adviser" would approve. What's the > poop on TRX's as far as traction, tread life, and cost relative > to reasonable quality 16" tires for a daily driver. "Poop" is about right. Although early '80s TRX tyre technology was good at the time, it hasn't moved any place since. I will be happy to describe briefly my own experiences, which are: Michelin 240/45 ZR415 gumballs, to fit an '88 E32, used to weigh in at around 1,200 quid a set, fitted. They lasted about 10-12,000 miles, which meant my dad had to buy a set every 6-9 months for his hard-used daily transport. Running costs to make you weep. In 1996, after years of spending the money then complaining, I told him to switch to imperial kit. A set of new 15x7 BMW alloys and tyres cost - you guessed it - 1,200 quid. Decent new tyres (225/60 ZR15) now cost less than 400 quid for four, and last over 20,000 miles. Absolutely no contest. Even with 240mm-wide tyres on them, the rims of the exposed TRX alloyed were completely shot, so I threw them out. The new combo is much better at protecting the rims. No doubt 16" wheels/tyres would have been better, especially for a 7er, but the 15x7 combo and configuration was OE later in its life and the ride, handling and road noise were all much improved. Grip suffered, perhaps, but given the car's use this was certainly an upgrade, not a downgrade. Andy T "This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. When addressed to our clients, any opinions or advice contained in this email are subject to the terms and conditions expressed in the governing KPMG client engagement letter. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately by return email or telephone +61 2 9335 7000 and destroy the original message. Thank you." ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #480 ************************** _________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | Bonneville Motorwerks . http://www.bonnevillemotorwerks.com | Circle Tire Co. (used & classic BMW parts) e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Curry's Auto Service . http://www.currysauto.com | Eurosport . http://www.eurosport-hp.com | Koala MotorSport . http://www.koalamotorsport.com | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | The Ultimate Garage . http://www.ultimategarage.com | UUC Motorwerks . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com | Zionsville Autosport . http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com ����������������������������������������
