[uucdigest] Tuesday, February 25 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6143
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: RE: [uuc] <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge UPDATE Re: [uuc] <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge UPDATE [uuc] Car Care Product Shelf Life [uuc] Re: <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge gremlin HELP! [uuc] Re: Ceased Water pump [uuc] <e34> Intermittent factory alarm trouble [uuc] <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge gremlin HELP! [uuc] Re: <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge gremlin HELP! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:34:51 -0500 From: "Tom Newton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge UPDATE Thanks Brant, Scott & Alex... Here's an update. Everything is dry now, and I still have the check engine lite and the surging idle, so the wet engine compartment is no longer a continuing issue. Anyway, I almost forgot, I have the Peake fault code reader! I hooked it up tonight and got three codes - 3, 4, & 34 The Peake fault code chart says for my 325i the following... 3 = Electrical Fuel Pump Relay 4 = Idle Speed Actuator (Open) 34 = Idle Switch So, on one hand I am excited that the fault codes sound reasonable, but on the other hand my limited DIY knowledge and sketchy diagrams in the Bently E30 manual is making it hard to move forward. While I can find the Electrical Fuel Pump Relay easy enough, the location of the other two items is in question because Bently uses different terminology to ID parts of the fuel system... But let me start with the Electrical Fuel Pump Relay. I notice that when I pull it out, the car quickly loses its idle (in my case a very high idle) and will stall out in short order... but when I stick it back in, the car will recover to an idle (albiet with my poor idle condition). Does this mean that the relay is fine? Should I just replace it? Any help on items #4 and 34 -- where are they? what do they look like? how do I fix, test, replace? -- would be appreciated. And when it says "Idle Speed Actuator (Open)" does that mean that it's stuck open? If so, how do I "close" it? Thanks in advance for any additional assistance. Tom Newton 98 M3 & 89 325i ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:54:14 -0800 From: "Scott & Charlotte Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge UPDATE Tom the fuel pump relay (glad they specified that it is electrical, so that you don't waste time looking for, um, that other kind of automotive relay) simply provides power to the fuel pump. Remove it and the fuel pump has no power. If the fuel pump is running, there is no fault here. The idle speed actuator is also known as the idle control valve, the idle regulator valve, and several other things. One end connects to the big boot between the AFM and the throttle body. The other end connects to the intake manifold. There is an electrical connector which provides signals from the ECU. At idle, the throttle body is closed and the idle control valve controls the amount of air entering the engine. Problems with this are either mechanical or electrical. Eliminate mechanical problems by removing the valve, spraying some carbeurator cleaner inside, and shaking it all around. You should hear the rotary valve slapping around inside when you give the valve a twisting motion. The Bentley has a crude test for the signals coming from the ECU. I'm guessing that the idle switch is the throttle position switch. It is part of the throttle body assembly (where the air enters the intake manifold). With the engine off, slowly open the throttle by hand. You should hear a click after moving the butterfly just off of rest, and you should hear another click as the butterfly approaches wide open throttle the second click is not your problem). When the TB is fully closed, the switch signals the ECU to operate the idle control valve. Upon opening, the first click is the point where the ECU signals the idle control valve to close. Check the electrical connector to the throttle position switch (underneath). If the TB heater gasket leaks, coolant gets into the connector and corrodes the connections. I can't explain why this would suddenly go bad after only a few steady hours of idling. Then again, I've never left my car idling for several hours. HTH, Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA 1990 325i - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 8:34 PM Subject: RE: [uuc] <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge UPDATE > Thanks Brant, Scott & Alex... > > Here's an update. Everything is dry now, and I still have the check engine > lite and the surging idle, so the wet engine compartment is no longer a > continuing issue. Anyway, I almost forgot, I have the Peake fault code > reader! I hooked it up tonight and got three codes - 3, 4, & 34 > > The Peake fault code chart says for my 325i the following... > > 3 = Electrical Fuel Pump Relay > 4 = Idle Speed Actuator (Open) > 34 = Idle Switch > > So, on one hand I am excited that the fault codes sound reasonable, but on > the other hand my limited DIY knowledge and sketchy diagrams in the Bently > E30 manual is making it hard to move forward. While I can find the > Electrical Fuel Pump Relay easy enough, the location of the other two items > is in question because Bently uses different terminology to ID parts of the > fuel system... > > But let me start with the Electrical Fuel Pump Relay. I notice that when I > pull it out, the car quickly loses its idle (in my case a very high idle) > and will stall out in short order... but when I stick it back in, the car > will recover to an idle (albiet with my poor idle condition). Does this mean > that the relay is fine? Should I just replace it? > > Any help on items #4 and 34 -- where are they? what do they look like? how > do I fix, test, replace? -- would be appreciated. And when it says "Idle > Speed Actuator (Open)" does that mean that it's stuck open? If so, how do I > "close" it? > > Thanks in advance for any additional assistance. > > Tom Newton > 98 M3 & 89 325i > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:18:32 -0800 From: "Kevin Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Car Care Product Shelf Life This weekend I posted to the list and sent an e-mail to Meguiar's about some 15 year old car care products I found in my parent's basement. Evan Regenstreif at Mequiar's just sent me an e-mail that said: "Generally we say all of our products shelf life are 3-5years so I would recommend that you purchase new products. Sorry about that." Kevin Kelly BMW CCA 50039 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:07:50 -0800 (PST) From: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge gremlin HELP! On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Drew Sheppard wrote: > 1. It is a problem at a connector on the fuel rail and the only > way to fix it is a complete engine wire harness replace. Just > live with it. > > 2. This engine does not have a smooth idle. > > 3. Open the plugs to .036 and set the valves at .015, that will > give it a better idle. > > I am kind of going on #s 2 and 3. The M20 engine always has a little cough at idle. It intensifies if you adjust the valves a little on the tight side - around .010 (I think that's the number Bentley told me). .015 sounds too large. Make sure you're using the right plugs - Bosch coppers or NGK, gapped to spec. If you have platinums in there, throw them out. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:28:57 -0500 From: "Mel Abrahams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Ceased Water pump As a preventitive measurement,BMW waterpumps should be replaced every 60k miles-especially if yours is the older type with the plastic impeller. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:21:55 -0600 From: Sean Cordone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] <e34> Intermittent factory alarm trouble I have on several occasions had the factory alarm in the 540 trigger lately. This happened sporadically last winter as well, so it seems to be related to low temperatures. Has anyone else had intermittent troubles with factory alarms? Barring that, is anyone familiar with the inputs that trigger the factory alarm? Clearly the door switches; anything else? --SC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:00:32 -0500 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge gremlin HELP! Drew says > > I am new to BMW ownership ('87 325is) and to the list but I am already learning good > tidbits (the stomp test). I wondered about the idle control valve. I did the > cap/rotor/plugs/valve adjust (in addition to water pump/thermostat/timing > belt/fluids) > and have a slightly rough idle. (Prepurchase inspection showed compression was good > in all cylinders) My assumption was that this engine should have a smooth idle and > that > I have some kind of misfire. The tach does not move, you can hear it and feel it in > the car with blower off etc. I have heard a few things. > 1. It is a problem at a connector on the fuel rail and the only way to fix it is a > complete engine wire harness replace. Just live with it. You can tell if the connector is a potential problem by opening it up (it is underneath the intake manifold roughly in the center near the base of the oil drain breather tube running down the side of the block). These typically corrode from either leaking throttle bodies or general moisture kicked up under the car. Open it up and look at the contacts, if they are corroded, they are likely a problem. Fixes include a new harness to the injector rail or redoing the harness ends with new connectors, etc. If there isn't any corrosion, it doesn't eliminate it as an issue but I would look elsewhere (BTDT). > 2. This engine does not have a smooth idle. Nor does my '90 325is (idles rock steady at 700 rpms per the tach) but it has a definitive rumble with stock cams and runs like a top without any other drivability issues. My old '89 325is wasn't smooth either (like my E36 M3 for instance) before or after the motor was rebuilt and it always idled steadily. > 3. Open the plugs to .036 and set the valves at .015, that will give it a better > idle. Plugs are supposed to be in the range of .028" to .032" (0.7 mm - 0.8 mm). NGKs come highly recommended by most M20 motor guys I know although the Boschs work fine as well. Also, valves are supposed to be in the 0.010" - 0.012" range adjusted cold. Check out www.koalamotorsport.com for more info on adjusting the valves. I would try the higher ends of these ranges if you want to try to smooth out the idle some but my experience is, these cars will never have ultra quiet, ultra smooth idle sound. Most of the noise from my car at idle comes from the tranny rattling which I thought might have been the clutch or TO bearing but is most likely just too light gear oil. My car has the plugs at .028" and the valves at 0.10" dead cold. I plan to readjust the plugs to 0.030" and replace with some new NGKs (unknown age on the current NGKs but they looked fine at 80k miles (6k miles ago)). I like the valves on the tighter side (0.010" at cold) since they don't make much noise and the car runs well. Regards, Rich 95 M3 - light ticking at idle 90 325is - a little more rumbly at idle :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:20:18 -0800 From: "Scott & Charlotte Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge gremlin HELP! Hi Drew, what kind of plugs did you install? If they're Bosch Platinum, remove them and use either the Bosch Silber or NGK. After an Inspection II at my favorite shop, my car had a rough idle. (It had been smooth prior to the visit.) I removed the correct Bosch Silber plugs which they had installed, and found that they were gapped correctly. But for fun I replaced them with NGK ZGR5A plugs, gapped to the big end of the range. The idle is not as smooth as I would have expected, but it is improved. BTW, I can't remember whether or not you said you had checked for vacuum leaks. That could also account for a rough idle. Does your service interval indicator work? That is the group of green, yellow and red LEDs in the lower center portion of the dash? If they don't work, replace the batteries that power the indicator and the tach will probably start working again. Removal of the instrument cluster for this task is described in the Bentley manual, but don't necessarily believe it if they say to remove the steering wheel. Try first with the wheel in place. Common sources for water in the trunk include: Tail light gaskets, antenna grommet (you eliminated that one), trunk lid seal, and clogged sunroof drains. For the latter, find the drain holes at the rear of the channel adjacent to the sunroof panel. Run some weed whacker line down the tubes and try to dislodge any blockage. Using anything stiffer than weed whacker line means you run the risk of damaging the tubes. Good luck with your new hobby, fixing your E30. Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA 1990 325i >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:34:08 -0800 (PST) >From: Drew Sheppard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [uuc] <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge gremlin HELP! > >Hi everybody > >I am new to BMW ownership ('87 325is) and to the list but I am >already learning good tidbits (the stomp test). I wondered about the >idle control valve. I did the cap/rotor/plugs/valve adjust (in addition >to water pump/thermostat/timing belt/fluids) and have a slightly rough >idle. (Prepurchase inspection showed compression was good in all >cylinders) My assumption was that this engine should have a smooth >idle and that I have some kind of misfire. The tach does not move, >you can hear it and feel it in the car with blower off etc. I have heard >a few things. > >1. It is a problem at a connector on the fuel rail and the only way to >fix it is a complete engine wire harness replace. Just live with it. > >2. This engine does not have a smooth idle. > >3. Open the plugs to .036 and set the valves at .015, that will give it >a better idle. > >I am kind of going on #s 2 and 3. I would prefer not to spend time >and effort chasing something that doesn't matter. I am concerned >about a miss at high speed/high load, but maybe this isn't an issue. It >pulls really well off idle. There is an extensive section in the Bentley >manual on checking the idle control valve, I will do that next. Anyone >been through this recently? > >The only other thing I need to work on quickly is that when it rains I >seem to have some water collecting in the trunk well. I replaced the >seal around the antenna, that didn't seem to help. (The water was >directly under it.) > >Thanks > >Drew ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6143 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | UUC Motorwerks . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________
