[uucdigest] Tuesday, February 25 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6144
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: RE: [uuc] <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge UPDATE [uuc] WANTED E36 M3 FRONT SEATS/M3 LUXURY FRONT SEATS [uuc] Custom Chip Programming [uuc] <E28> Ongoing Idle / Stalling Issues..Back from the Wrench Re: [uuc] Custom Chip Programming Re: [uuc] Custom Chip Programming [uuc] Re: <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge UPDATE [uuc] Interior Colors [uuc] Re: re: E34 steering Re: [uuc] Custom Chip Programming ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:16:41 -0500 From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge UPDATE Just remember, not all Bosch plugs are bad. The ones they sell at the Auto Parts stores are usually bunk, because they have a really small electrode. It's very small, supposedly to help it not foul but I've found that the you end up with more misfires, etc with them, especially when accelerating hard. The factory bosch plugs (at least the ones for the M50/M52/S50/S52) are very good plugs, they have a large, rounded ground strap and a large electrode. -kit - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:02:44 -0800 From: "Chris Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] WANTED E36 M3 FRONT SEATS/M3 LUXURY FRONT SEATS I'm in Los Angeles and in need of the front seats for the e36 M3 in black. My preference is that they are non-powered but heated. However, beggars can't be choosers so I would definitely consider the seats from the M3 Luxury package which are power and heated. Thanks! Chris http://www.inlacal.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:39:07 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Couvillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Custom Chip Programming Gruppe, This line of questioning applies to any Motronic 1.x ECU. Before I begin, please keep in mind that I'm a Finance major and have no engineering background whatsoever. Anyway. . . I'm looking for information on burning my own chip. What I'm specifically looking for at the moment is a way to hook a laptop up to the ECU so that I can see what's happening at a specific point in time with certain conditions. The biggest piece of this puzzle, I believe, is fabbing up an emulator to plug in to the ECU so that I can make changes to the "chip" on the fly. The only products that I've seen that allow on-the-fly chip tuning cost four figures. I'm looking for something much, much cheaper; something that I can maybe make on my own. I already know the processor type (80C515; thanks Jim C!) and chip type (Intel 2732, 24-pin; thanks Mark D!), as well as the basics on how I need to go about doing this. The problem I'm having is finding either a) a cheap emulator that will work with a 24-pin 2732 chip or b) some type of guide to building my own emulator. I would prefer option B as I'm more interested in learning, at this point, than I am about actually accomplishing anything. Has anyone any experience on this subject? Perhaps someone knows where I can locate this information? I've already done about 12 hours' worth of searching through the DIY EFI (www.diy-efi.org) archives over the past week, which is how I've learned what I have at the moment. I'm not looking for someone to give me a step-by-step guide here. I'm more looking for someone to point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance! Brad Couvillon '87 528e www.fatdaddybmw.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:15:17 -0500 From: "Ron J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] <E28> Ongoing Idle / Stalling Issues..Back from the Wrench Hi All. Just got back from the wrench.. I now have a new fuel filter. The one that came out of the car was from 1996. (previous owner never changed it at all) Wow.. they are supposed to be changed every 10,000 miles. Since I purchased the car last April, I hadnt changed it. The filter was pretty heavy and when my mechanic friend blew through it, he said it was pretty gummed up. We ordered a new one, and when it showed up, I compared the two, and the old one wieghed at least an ounce or two more than the new one. We put the new filter on. The rough idle is now gone, and I drove the car for about 1 hour afterwards and it seems a lot smoother. We checked the plugs as well and they need changing, so I will be doing that, and I am taking the car back to him in a week to get the valves adjusted, and to get a new O2 sensor installed. The broken wire is also most likely causing a problem. It does seem like the Feul filter was making a major contribution to the feul system problem, along with the 2.5 bar FPR, and the broken O2 sensor wire. 2 issues down, one left to go. My wrench friend also said that I will notice a major difference with the valves adjusted, timing, and new plugs, which I totally agree on. Anyway. I was quoted $305 for a new O2 sensor in Canadian Dollars. So now I have to try and hunt one down, that is cheaper. I guess that was dealer price (mechanic called). Anyone have any suggestions as to where I should get an O2 sensor at a better price than that? Cheers Ron J 85 535i 73 911s 2.7 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:30:58 -0500 From: "James Moran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Custom Chip Programming One word: Don't If you don't know how to do this, and why you shouldn't, you have no business mucking around with your ECU. Even if you could read the chip, you would have to decipher the hex code and then figure out what changes to make to it. Only a few people have reversed engineered the Bosch programming and they're not about to share that information. And even if you could a. read the programming off a chip and b. modify it, you would still need testing on a dyno with a wide-band lambda sensor to correctly tune it. At which point you have achieved a tuned chip that you could have purchased for $250 from any vendor. If you absolutely must fool around with the injection and ignition tuning of your car, I would recommend purchasing an inexpensive stand-alone system to install and tune. The Mega-squirt developed by Bowling from the DIY_EFI list is a good start if you can build your own. Otherwise maybe the Simple Digital (sdsefi) system. I know this sounds harsh, and perhaps it is, but this is not something worth spending time or money on. Jim Moran '88 M6 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Couvillon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Gruppe, > > This line of questioning applies to any Motronic 1.x > ECU. Before I begin, please keep in mind that I'm a > Finance major and have no engineering background > whatsoever. Anyway. . . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:48:58 -0800 (PST) From: Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Custom Chip Programming On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Brad Couvillon wrote: > I already know the processor type (80C515; thanks Jim > C!) and chip type (Intel 2732, 24-pin; thanks Mark > D!), as well as the basics on how I need to go about > doing this. The problem I'm having is finding either > a) a cheap emulator that will work with a 24-pin 2732 > chip or b) some type of guide to building my own > emulator. I would prefer option B as I'm more > interested in learning, at this point, than I am about > actually accomplishing anything. Brad, I'm not sure what you're asking for here since the term emulator could be equally applied to either the processor or the EPROM (the 2732). An emulator for the processor, or an ICE (In-Circuit Emulator) is going to be very expensive, and isn't really a DIY project. A ROM (or EPROM) emulator is cheaper (less than $200 usually), but unless you're just tweaking values in the ROM, it won't help you reverse-engineer the ECU code. Just to clarify the terms: ICE, or in-circuit emulator, is a device that plugs into where the CPU chip normally goes, and pretends to be the CPU. You can debug the CPU code very precisely with such a device, and reverse-engineer the program contained in the ROM, since you can essentially single-step the CPU's execution, examine memory, halt, etc. Since it emulates the CPU, it's a very specific device that can only debug a small set of CPUs. Such a device would plug into where the 80C515 goes. I assume the 80C515 is soldered onto the motherboard, and so you'd have to desolder it, and solder on an adapter to which the emulator can attach. The ROM or EPROM emulator plugs into where the ROM or EPROM chip (the 2732 in your case) goes, and pretends to be the ROM or EPROM. This is a useful device because you don't need to spend time erasing and reprogramming your EPROM every time you make a code change or fix a bug. You download a program to the ROM emulator (which is quick compared to erasing and reprogramming), and you can immediately start running it. As with an ICE, you will probably need to remove the original 2732, and solder on an adapter. I have no idea how happy these things will be in an engine bay with all that extra heat and RF flying around. I'd suggest as an initial step to doing this, reading out the ECU code, and disassembling, commenting and fully understanding how it works. To do this, you will have to figure out which sensors, controls, etc. connect to which I/O pins on the CPU or board. And then, you should need just a ROM reader, and to desolder the 2732 from the motherboard, and a multimeter and service manual to figure out the I/O connections. Just hope that they didn't scramble the address and data line layouts to mess with people who may be peeking inside their ECUs. - --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:56:18 -0800 (PST) From: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: <E30> 325i -- Idle/Surge UPDATE On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Scott & Charlotte Miller wrote: > I'm guessing that the idle switch is the throttle position switch. It is > part of the throttle body assembly (where the air enters the intake > manifold). With the engine off, slowly open the throttle by hand. You > should hear a click after moving the butterfly just off of rest, and you > should hear another click as the butterfly approaches wide open throttle > the second click is not your problem). When the TB is fully > closed, the switch signals the ECU to operate the idle control > valve. Upon opening, the first click is the point where the ECU > signals the idle control valve to close. Best to do an electrical test - these types of microswitches can still make the "click" but not actually work. > the connections. I can't explain why this would suddenly go bad > after only a few steady hours of idling. Then again, I've never > left my car idling for several hours. OT - my mom accidentally left her Oldsmobile idling all day at work. only used about a quarter tank, and was nice & warm when she left for home. > > 4 = Idle Speed Actuator (Open) In this case, "open" may mean the opposite of "short circuit", i.e. there is nothing to detect, as it may not be connected electrically. - -- "It is an honor to be Cookie Monster." -Sesame Street spokeswoman Audrey Shapiro ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:08:19 -0800 From: "Scott & Charlotte Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Interior Colors Hi groups, I'm looking at some seats for my 1990 325i. My interior color is Natur beige (except for the Pearl sport seats I added, oops). The seller of the seats only knows that they are "light tan". They look Natur in pictures, but then again, the pictures could be off several shades. For a 1992 E30 convertible, were there any other colors available that might have been considered "light tan"? TIA, Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA 1990 325i ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:17:46 -0600 From: "TOM DOTZLER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: re: E34 steering Thanks Brett. I guess I better study up cuz I didn't know it was a box..duh... Yes, I wondered about swapping out with the M5 cuz the e34 535i steering is so squishy compared to like the the e28s we've had. I replaced all the control arms and tie rods and had three wheel alignments and added some toe out on the last which helped but it still has this slightly delayed indirect feel. My car is a 1990.(late 89) How can I tell if it has servotronic? Would replacing with the M5 box be an improvement? Tom Dotzler 90 535i 89 M3 74 Nova __________________________________________________ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:35:47 -0500 From: "KMS - Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] E34 steering It's a steering box, not a rack, in the E34, and yes, the M5 is special, at least in that it has a unique steering box. It is, however, interchangeable with your 535i, if that's the point of the question, provided it does NOT have servotronic. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:48:01 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Couvillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Custom Chip Programming James, No offense, but -- to me -- people like you are the same people that just don't get it when it's all said and done. The point is NOT to just burn a performance chip for my M20. Hell, I bought a Dinan chip already installed in an ECU (I didn't even have to open it up) for $75 a couple of months ago. It doesn't get much cheaper than that. Without going into the details about what I'm planning on doing with my fuel injection system, let's just say that a standard performance chip will NOT be even close to optimal for my setup. I'm planning on going with a different fuel injection system in the coming months and will need to either a) send my car to someone to do some testing and tuning ($$$$) or b) tune the car myself. You said that learning custom chip tuning wouldn't be cost effective. For my application, that's bullshit. While I'm running the mostly-stock injection system, have a spare ECU to play with, and have a few bucks extra laying around, why not learn some of this stuff right now instead of learning on a seemingly completely different system? The purpose of this excercise is learning. Hell, if I just wanted to get something done, I wouldn't EVER work on my car. What would be the point? It'd be much easier and quicker (but not cheaper) to just let a mechanic fix it. I did NOT ask someone to convince me not to do this. This is the same crap I read over and over from Jim C in the DIY EFI archives. I'm not asking someone to give me anything. All I want is a little guidance. Thank you for your complete lack of respect for someone that just wants to learn. I hope you never reply to one of my posts again. Brad Couvillon - --- James Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One word: Don't > > If you don't know how to do this, and why you > shouldn't, you have no business > mucking around with your ECU. Even if you could > read the chip, you would have to > decipher the hex code and then figure out what > changes to make to it. Only a few > people have reversed engineered the Bosch > programming and they're not about to share > that information. > > And even if you could a. read the programming off a > chip and b. modify it, you would > still need testing on a dyno with a wide-band lambda > sensor to correctly tune it. > At which point you have achieved a tuned chip that > you could have purchased for $250 > from any vendor. > > If you absolutely must fool around with the > injection and ignition tuning of your > car, I would recommend purchasing an inexpensive > stand-alone system to install and > tune. The Mega-squirt developed by Bowling from the > DIY_EFI list is a good start if > you can build your own. Otherwise maybe the Simple > Digital (sdsefi) system. > > I know this sounds harsh, and perhaps it is, but > this is not something worth > spending time or money on. > > Jim Moran > '88 M6 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6144 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | UUC Motorwerks . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________
