[uucdigest] Thursday, March 13 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6215
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Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] Turner Motorsport Team Takes Sebring Pole Position [uuc] Bay Area Labor Rates - I Lied Re: [uuc] Radio question RE: [uuc] Re: Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members [uuc] Paintless Dent Repair - Bay Area Re: [uuc] Turner Motorsport Team Takes Sebring Pole Position Re: [uuc] Radio question Re: [uuc] Paintless Dent Repair - Bay Area Re: [uuc] Radio question Re: [uuc] Radio question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:59:33 -0500 From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Turner Motorsport Team Takes Sebring Pole Position James Moran wrote: > I wasn't able to find the definitive allowances, but I imagine the RS6 will have a > manual transmission for durability and is running at 3100 lbs minimum weight. that makes sense. I don't recall how piggy the RS6 is, but I bet to get it to 3,100 they're going to be dropping at least a thosand pounds. given how much sound deadening & other luxury crap it's full of I guess that's achieveable. > Does WC have finishing penalty weights? yep. don't remember how punitive it is, but it Galati was always near the front (often taking advantage of AWD for good starts from a good qualifying spot, then holding people back. I imagine Pobst will be quite good as well in that regard. we'll see how the SCCA does in keeping things extra close - whatever formula they've used in the past seems to work pretty good. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 14:04:06 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Bay Area Labor Rates - I Lied Earlier this week I mentioned that Bavarian Professionals (Berkeley, CA) charges $90 per hour, but that they give a 10% BMW CCA member discount. Today I had lunch with some local Bimmerheads, among them Mark Francis, who is enjoying a nice second career working at Bav Pros. He mentioned that they've increased their labor rate to $100 per hour. They still offer a club discount, but he didn't say whether it is still 10%. So I lied, I just didn't know it at the time. Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:37:43 -0600 From: Sean Cordone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Radio question The "head unit" contains many functional blocks, including a tape deck, FM receiver, and a preamp. All audio signals pass through the preamp section in the head unit. Essentially, adding the external changer just adds a another input to the head unit (along with the tape deck/FM/WB). The CD changer has an internal digital-to-analog converter, that converts the bits read off the disk into a reconstructed analog signal that is fed into the head unit and processed just like the other inputs (I'm talking about the Alpine "CD shuttle" era here - the newer units may have digital outputs and the DA converter in the head unit (?)) Everything in the signal path degrades the fidelity of the signal. For signal processing, less really is more. But some system blocks are typically more important than others. Speakers should always be the first consideration. An absolutely pristine electrical signal driving a crap speaker will sound like crap. After that, the power amp deserves attention. The head unit I'd worry about last. Why? When talking about factory car audio equipment, it's a question of, given the component's job, how hard (i.e. how expensive) is it to do well? A speaker is a complicated electromechanical device that is just plain expensive to build well; a factory item likely reflects some pretty harsh cost compromises. The power amp is an electrical device only, but it also has a demanding job. No matter what product you're talking about, smooth, linear power costs money (in this case because of relatively expensive, bulky discrete components). The head unit preamp has a relatively easy job - its task is just to set the signal level w/o adding too much noise and pass it to the power amp. This can be done relatively linearly for cheap. People pay $$$ for preamps for home use, but in the car environment...? BMW has complicated matters a bit by putting the speaker crossovers in the amplifier - this means that changing speakers w/o changing the amplifier could yield erratic results w/o taking care to at least make sure impedances match and the crossover frequencies work ok with the new speaker drivers. - --SC (stereo guy? Naw, still listening to the stock system in the 540, but thinking of finally pitching the Nokias) KMS - Brett Anderson wrote: >I'm not a stereo guy by anyone's imagination. I'm happy if the damn thing >makes noise, but I gotta ask..... > >How does changing the head unit effect CD sound quality, when using a CD >changer? Be gentle, I know engines and diffs, not stereos. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 17:55:19 -0500 From: Bill Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Re: Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members Now that this horse had been beat to a bloody pulp I will throw out one more variable, just because "it ain't ever that simple". There are different classifications of non-profits. I don't know what the local CCA's classification is but I suspect they are 501c(7)'s - Social and recreation clubs. To get rid of this annoying membership revenue requirement they just need to re-incorporate as 501c(3)'s. They can still have members but their stated purpose needs to be something along the lines of betterment of mankind by providing and promoting Drivers Education to any and all. Then they don't have to worry about non-membership revenue but they do have to worry about revenue derived from sources that aren't linked to their charter and purpose like that club picnic or whatever. Bill Matthews Hockessin DE 00 M Geeze full disclosure - I belong to 3 501c(7) car clubs and work for a 501c(3) > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brian Daley > The short answer is "no". If your personal income taxes are > audited you must be prepared to provide documentation to support > the validity of your deductions. The IRS does not need to prove > that a deduction is invalid, if you can't back it up it's > disallowed. I would expect that if a non-profit is audited, they > must be similarly prepared to prove that they meet the conditions > required to be granted non-profit tax status. I would assume > that those conditions include maintaining such records, and > absence of same would result in tax liability or loss of > non-profit status. If you don't keep sufficient records to prove > otherwise, the IRS is free to assume that *all* of your income > was derived from non-members and is therefore subject to taxation. > > Brian Daley > -------Original Message------- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > I know the IRS takes certain liberties with our rights, but > wouldn't the IRS have to PROVE that more than 15% of a club's > income came from non-members? How would they know? What if the > chapter didn't keep records regarding the membership status of > attendees? Of course, my question is hypothetical. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 14:59:02 -0800 From: "Grant Low" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Paintless Dent Repair - Bay Area During my cross-country trek to the Bay Area, my left fender had the pleasure of meeting a piece of tractor-trailer retread at 80mph. Now that I have arrived, I'd like to get it popped out. The dent itself is about 2.5" in diameter and is not along a hard crease line. Could anyone point me to an experienced "dent guy" in the Bay Area? East bay is best, but I'll go to the peninsula if need be. Thanks, Grant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 14:59:24 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Turner Motorsport Team Takes Sebring Pole Position ben keyes at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> I wasn't able to find the definitive allowances, but I imagine the RS6 will >> have a manual transmission for durability and is running at 3100 lbs minimum >> weight. > > that makes sense. I don't recall how piggy the RS6 is, but I bet to get it to > 3,100 they're going to be dropping at least a thosand pounds. given how much > sound deadening & other luxury crap it's full of I guess that's achieveable. Given that a bone-stock S4 is like 3600-3700 lbs, I can't imagine that the stock RS6 is much under 4000. - - Mark - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 17:00:41 -0600 From: Sean Cordone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Radio question mike wrote: >The aftermarket >unit will have higher level outputs going to the speaker inputs thus going >to the stock amp, this also means, at a given volume, they will be less >distorted than the stock stereo outputs. > > This sentence is confusing - do you mean "going to the power amp inputs"? Regardless, there's no way you can make such a blanket statement. Some will be higher, some lower. "Level" at an intermediate point in the amplification chain is a design question and nothing more. The preamp's job is just to linearly amplify a signal to a level that's compatible with the power amp's sensitivity. It's about dynamic range - you want enough gain so that the power amp can be driven at full (linear) power, but not so much that system noise is excessively amplified. By using "speaker level outputs" to drive an amp you're essentially adding a third gain stage - but this amplifies everything at it's input signal, noise, distortion, and all, while adding it's own noise and distortion. >$180 JVC cd player into the dash makes about a 30-40% improvement in sound >etc vs teh stock head unit/changer. > Sound improvement (especially in terms of %!) is about as precise as the notorious "butt dyno". Did you take measures to ensure that overall volume was the same in blind, A/B tests? The ear tends to simply prefer the slightly louder of two sounds - IMO this has led directly the the engineering monstrosity that is today's car stereo market. Combined with the Game Boy design aesthetic, I hardly bother to even look anymore. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:10:20 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Hsu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Paintless Dent Repair - Bay Area Ooh man those truck treads are big nasty car damagers... I used Dent Pro to knock out a few dents on my car last year. The guy did a good job for my prob. They come to your work or home to do the job. This guy charges per dent. Another company (forgot the name, dent wizard?) charges per body panel. I think that company would be cheaper if you had a few on one panel. I think you could do a search on paintless dent removal for a few companies that doe this stuff. Mike - --- Grant Low <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > During my cross-country trek to the Bay Area, my > left fender had the > pleasure of meeting a piece of tractor-trailer > retread at 80mph. Now > that I have arrived, I'd like to get it popped out. > The dent itself is > about 2.5" in diameter and is not along a hard > crease line. > > Could anyone point me to an experienced "dent guy" > in the Bay Area? > East bay is best, but I'll go to the peninsula if > need be. > > Thanks, > Grant > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 17:28:01 -0600 From: Sean Cordone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Radio question Burtsky wrote: >I have a '98 E36 with the upgraded HK Radio and a CD changer in the trunk. >Lately I have, unfortunately, started to listen to classical music in the >car and the failings of the system are quite apparent. For example the >violin section sounds like they are scratching their fingernails on >chalkboard rather than bowing a musical instrument. > Ok, last from me on this thread. Classical music is the hardest to reproduce. It is very broad spectrum and very dynamic (ever listen to a tympany on one of those car "subs"? Hilarious - everything sounds like a "honk".) The violins are going to be tough to get right. First, BMW put some truly harsh tweeters in their cars. They are horribly sibilant and spitty. Second, solid state amps are typically dry and "brittle", adding to the effect. Third, cheap DA converters (right in the CD player itself) are notoriously harsh. Even in pop music the treble can sometimes cause pain in the factory system (listen to the cymbals in "Bad" on U2's "The Unforgettable Fire" on a factory system. Ouch!) Nevertheless, to improve I'd follow the speaker/amp upgrade route suggested in the previous message in the quest to improve the sound. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:26:50 -0500 From: "mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Radio question Sean gave a much better description that I did, but I still disagree about the head units. Using his logic, and most others, one would always assume the speakers etc are the first thing to upgrade, that is just not the case in a BMW. The units used by BMW up to 98 are just complete POS junk!!! Period. I started doing stereo installs in 85, competed up to 91 in crank it ups, haha, never won until they started giving points for sound quality and hidden installations.. House stuff was Denon Cd to Yamaha preamp to a pair of Adcom 555 to a pair of Carver Al III speakers, with a custom coffee table/subwoofer setup. Good sound is very important to me, not volume or bass. Mostly from trial and error, I figured out the head unit and stock amp are the weak spots, NOT the speakers. I discovered this by just swapping to a head unit that I knew the specs on, WOW, talk about a difference in sound quality still using the stock speakers and amp. I was in the process of building a decent system for my M3. Head unit is a good place to start since you only get out what you put in, crap in = crap out. I discovered that with a good cd reciever and blocking the bass below 300, the stock speakers were ok with an added sub in the back. So for about $600, I had a system I could live with and without major surgery to the car running new wires and installing speakers. Now, doing this does not result in a great system by any stretch, but atleast in the E-36 it gives you a system that can be heard clearly at 80mph with the windows down, absent of distortion that the stock head unit has at 70% volume. So for someone on a budget but still wanting decent tunes, just swap the head unit, it might surprise you. On the E-34, great results can be achieved by swapping the head unit, then placing a small 8-10" powered sub in the trunk, but keeping the stock speakers, as they are quite good in that car. On the other hand with this, I have taken the stock BMW head units and installed in cars replacing the head unit I put in the BMW. The result was just what I expected, the BMW head unit sounded much worse than the orginal unit given that everything else was the same. So, for the folks looking to upgrade, even if you have to just borrow a head unit, try it for yourself, you might be surprised. I know 3 people personally that spent the money replacing stock speakers and amps, ran new speaker wire, had over $1000 in bills for all that becuase they wanted to keep the stock head unit and it still just did not sound good until they replaced it. Mike - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Cordone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [uuc] Radio question > The "head unit" contains many functional blocks, including a tape deck, > FM receiver, and a preamp. All audio signals pass through the preamp > section in the head unit. Essentially, adding the external changer just > adds a another input to the head unit (along with the tape deck/FM/WB). > The CD changer has an internal digital-to-analog converter, that > converts the bits read off the disk into a reconstructed analog signal > that is fed into the head unit and processed just like the other inputs > (I'm talking about the Alpine "CD shuttle" era here - the newer units > may have digital outputs and the DA converter in the head unit (?)) > > Everything in the signal path degrades the fidelity of the signal. For > signal processing, less really is more. But some system blocks are > typically more important than others. Speakers should always be the > first consideration. An absolutely pristine electrical signal driving a > crap speaker will sound like crap. After that, the power amp deserves > attention. The head unit I'd worry about last. > > Why? When talking about factory car audio equipment, it's a question of, > given the component's job, how hard (i.e. how expensive) is it to do > well? A speaker is a complicated electromechanical device that is just > plain expensive to build well; a factory item likely reflects some > pretty harsh cost compromises. The power amp is an electrical device > only, but it also has a demanding job. No matter what product you're > talking about, smooth, linear power costs money (in this case because of > relatively expensive, bulky discrete components). The head unit preamp > has a relatively easy job - its task is just to set the signal level w/o > adding too much noise and pass it to the power amp. This can be done > relatively linearly for cheap. People pay $$$ for preamps for home use, > but in the car environment...? > > BMW has complicated matters a bit by putting the speaker crossovers in > the amplifier - this means that changing speakers w/o changing the > amplifier could yield erratic results w/o taking care to at least make > sure impedances match and the crossover frequencies work ok with the new > speaker drivers. > > --SC (stereo guy? Naw, still listening to the stock system in the 540, > but thinking of finally pitching the Nokias) > > > KMS - Brett Anderson wrote: > > >I'm not a stereo guy by anyone's imagination. I'm happy if the damn thing > >makes noise, but I gotta ask..... > > > >How does changing the head unit effect CD sound quality, when using a CD > >changer? Be gentle, I know engines and diffs, not stereos. > > > > > ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6215 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | UUC Motorwerks . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________
