[uucdigest] Thursday, March 13 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6216
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Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] Radio question Re: [uuc] Radio question Re: [uuc] Radio question [uuc] Re: Instructing Re: [uuc] Radio question Re: [uuc] Radio question [uuc] RE: Stereo Question [uuc] RE: Radio Question Re: [uuc] RE: Radio Question [uuc] <e28> Need rear springs..Was Fender Rolling [uuc] RE>Radio Question Re: [uuc] Turner Motorsport Team Takes Sebring Pole Position ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:40:43 -0500 From: "Dean Boucouras" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Radio question I will throw my $.02 into the mix. Several years ago I swapped out the head unit in my wife's E32. Replaced it with a Blaupunkt Toronto and a Blaupunkt CD Changer. Added a used a/d/s amp to power the rear speakers. Left the original speakers in the car. The Blaupunkt fits in nicely with the dash, the color of the display matches very well. The unit has not given us any problems. Results showed a huge improvement. The sound was much cleaner, better dynamic range, more power etc. The system is not equivalent to the big buck systems that some of you may have, but the improvement was significant. Dean ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:45:42 -0500 From: "mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Radio question Sean, I used blanket comments since with Stereo systems, the average person has not researched or has a hobby in such. Ideally we should ALL install a digital cd changer to a pre amp head unit to a 8 channel crossover, then to the best D/A convertors we can find then use the most expensive triple shielded, solid gold fluxed $1000 a pair cables to the amp in back, then use Kimber cable or whatever the flavor of the week is to each speaker component. I did not make any measurements and I dont have any FAITH in measurements made in a car. I personally found that I did not like systems setup to sound perfect when measured. I like music to sound as I have heard it live or what just sounds good to me. My hearing range is still quite good, surprisingly but good specs vs what sounds good to me are not always the same. I spent many 24hr days tuning and retuning to an spec analyzer trying to get it right before leaving for a competition. But I would find for my own listening pleasure, I never used the settings that worked the best for the instrutments. I was making very general blanket statements when I said 30-40% improvement. IN fact, there is no way to actually state a % of improvement, if you use actually measured tests etc, I would just say it didnt sound right to me, lol. Stereo is very subjective in my opinion, but the stock stuff is so bad it is easy to make a improvement even with cheap components. Mike spent way too much money on stereo stuff growing up - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Cordone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [uuc] Radio question > mike wrote: > > >The aftermarket > >unit will have higher level outputs going to the speaker inputs thus going > >to the stock amp, this also means, at a given volume, they will be less > >distorted than the stock stereo outputs. > > > > > This sentence is confusing - do you mean "going to the power amp > inputs"? Regardless, there's no way you can make such a blanket > statement. Some will be higher, some lower. "Level" at an intermediate > point in the amplification chain is a design question and nothing more. > The preamp's job is just to linearly amplify a signal to a level that's > compatible with the power amp's sensitivity. It's about dynamic range - > you want enough gain so that the power amp can be driven at full > (linear) power, but not so much that system noise is excessively > amplified. By using "speaker level outputs" to drive an amp you're > essentially adding a third gain stage - but this amplifies everything at > it's input signal, noise, distortion, and all, while adding it's own > noise and distortion. > > >$180 JVC cd player into the dash makes about a 30-40% improvement in sound > >etc vs teh stock head unit/changer. > > > Sound improvement (especially in terms of %!) is about as precise as the > notorious "butt dyno". Did you take measures to ensure that overall > volume was the same in blind, A/B tests? The ear tends to simply prefer > the slightly louder of two sounds - IMO this has led directly the the > engineering monstrosity that is today's car stereo market. Combined with > the Game Boy design aesthetic, I hardly bother to even look anymore. > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:50:36 -0500 From: "mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Radio question Did the same in a 535i I had. Just put a decent amp and head unit, used the stock speakers, sounded good enough for what it was. When I really need great sound, I listen at home or borrow a friends Lexus, haha Mike - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Boucouras" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [uuc] Radio question > I will throw my $.02 into the mix. > > Several years ago I swapped out the head unit in my wife's E32. Replaced it > with a Blaupunkt Toronto and a Blaupunkt CD Changer. Added a used a/d/s amp > to power the rear speakers. Left the original speakers in the car. > > The Blaupunkt fits in nicely with the dash, the color of the display matches > very well. The unit has not given us any problems. > > Results showed a huge improvement. The sound was much cleaner, better > dynamic range, more power etc. > > The system is not equivalent to the big buck systems that some of you may > have, but the improvement was significant. > > Dean > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:56:28 -0500 From: bs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Instructing Been there, wish I HADN'T done that! > - ----- Original Message ----- > From: "KMS - Brett Anderson" > > Hell, if I were an instructor, I'd want to get PAID for having to ride > with > > *some* students.... ;-) > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:09:42 -0600 From: Sean Cordone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Radio question mike wrote: ><snip> >I was making very general blanket statements when I said 30-40% improvement. >IN fact, there is no way to actually state a % of improvement, if you use >actually measured tests etc, I would just say it didnt sound right to me, >lol. Stereo is very subjective in my opinion, > I agree w/ you here. If it sounds better to you, it IS better for all intents and purposes. It's all between the ears. In fact, for my home system I find the best stereo upgrade is a bottle of wine. Can't recommend the same for the car of course. --SC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 19:31:40 -0500 From: "mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Radio question I dont know Sean, on the few occasions I was able to use a Limo, a few bottles in the back really did help make traffic go away, my date turned into a supermodel and the music sounded better for some reason. Mike - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Cordone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [uuc] Radio question > mike wrote: > > ><snip> > >I was making very general blanket statements when I said 30-40% improvement. > >IN fact, there is no way to actually state a % of improvement, if you use > >actually measured tests etc, I would just say it didnt sound right to me, > >lol. Stereo is very subjective in my opinion, > > > I agree w/ you here. If it sounds better to you, it IS better for all > intents and purposes. It's all between the ears. In fact, for my home > system I find the best stereo upgrade is a bottle of wine. Can't > recommend the same for the car of course. --SC > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 17:00:07 -0800 From: "KKiely" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: Stereo Question Sean knows of what he speaks: " It's about dynamic range - you want enough gain so that the power amp can be driven at full (linear) power, but not so much that system noise is excessively amplified. By using "speaker level outputs" to drive an amp you're essentially adding a third gain stage - but this amplifies everything at it's input signal, noise, distortion, and all, while adding it's own noise and distortion." I would add that you need to set gain to avoid clipping of the input signal when you try to push the volumes to a level higher than when clipping is not an issue which can be intrusive if not properly accounted for. - -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 17:10:25 -0800 From: "KKiely" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: Radio Question Mike when you say: "Now, doing this does not result in a great system by any stretch, but at least in the E-36 it gives you a system that can be heard clearly at 80mph with the windows down, absent of distortion that the stock head unit has at 70% volume. ".... it completely negates the need for any change since head unit distortion and background ambient noise conspire to erase the subtlety of any system differences. - -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:26:03 -0500 From: "mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: Radio Question Hmmm Funny Kevin in that with the stock unit, I cannot even make out what is playing, much less tell if it is country, rock or gospel with the stock unit, But with an aftermarket headunit of decent quality, I can hear the music clearly, actually make out the words and sing along with it if I like, if gives new meaning to "head like a hole" concerning this discussion. So how bout you getting in my car and then explaining to me why there is such a huge FNNNN difference in the head units. Let me restate, the difference between the stock head unit and a good aftermarket is HUGE Mike - ----- Original Message ----- From: "KKiely" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 8:10 PM Subject: [uuc] RE: Radio Question > Mike when you say: > > "Now, doing this does not result in a great system by any stretch, but > at least in the E-36 it gives you a system that can be heard clearly at 80mph > with the windows down, absent of distortion that the stock head unit has at > 70% volume. ".... it completely negates the need for any change since head unit > distortion and background ambient noise conspire to erase the subtlety of any > system differences. > > -Kevin > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:37:12 -0500 From: "Ron J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] <e28> Need rear springs..Was Fender Rolling Hi All, Well , after I put the new wheels on, and realized that I have to roll the fenders, I noticed that the car is sitting lower on the drivers side than the passenger side, and in fact when I go over a dip, only the driver side rear wheel rubs on the fender. This tells me that I need new springs.. The one one the drivers side, seems to be a bit worn out, which makes sense since that is the side of the car that always has weight on it when driving thanks to the driver, with passengers less frequently weighing down the right side. So now the question is, do I put factory springs in, or do I upgrade to some Eibach springs, and roll the fenders anyway. I would like a tighter feel in the suspension, so I am thinking going the performance spring route. Any suggestions? Any slightly used ones out there for an E28 535i? Cheers Ron J 85 535i 73 911s 2.7 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 17:49:21 -0800 From: Harvey Chao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE>Radio Question I remember my disappointment with the stock radio in an 83 E28. I got the factory service manual (it was an Alpine mfg. unit for BMW) and discovered that the problem was at least two fold: The frequency response for Bass of the head unit was limited to 80 Hz, and those small 4 x 6 speakers couldn't do much better even when I substituted a "wideband" source. The solution for the '83 was a new head unit, external 4 channel amp, separate amp and 10" subwoofer in the trunk, and replacement of the stock speakers. I made adapter plates and used 5 1/4 inch round in the foot wells, and "plate" speakers ( 5 1/4 inch plus 1 inch tweeter) on the rear parcel shelf. Got the front door tweeters from a newer model E28 and retrofitted them to the factory location n the doors by the outside rear view mirrors. Ran new wires as required. The '86 already had similar speaker upgrades to what I had done on the '83, so I just transplanted the head unit, amps, and sub woofer and utilized the stock speakers. That unit had a separate factory amp in the trunk, and I simply unplugged it and matched the outputs from the 4 channel amp moved over from the '83 to the appropriate leads that used to plug into the stock amp. Major sound quality improvement in both cars. Harvey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:20:44 -0800 (PST) From: Carlos Lopez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Turner Motorsport Team Takes Sebring Pole Position Ben Keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >and automatic transmissions? Ben, per earlier emails on the MCW list I went and dug through the Champion Racing site and they listed some specs for the RS6, I recall reading 475hp and a 6-speed transmission. I was also digging through other sites, noticed JT-Designs sponsors Roger Foo, I still wonder whether or not JT-D is making some of the Ground Control stuff (some of you probably have the rear shock mounts that JT-D and Jim Powell designed). On Foo's Protege you can tell it's running Advance Design shocks and looks like GC camber plates. BTW for the 12-hours at Sebring One Lap dog Catesby Jones (kicked ass in a 318ti with a turbo '95 M3 motor in '00) will be sharing an E46 M3 with Boris Said. I hope they do well. Carlos (was bored at work today) :-) 91 M3 88 iS __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! 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