[uucdigest] Wednesday, March 26 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6248
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: Re: [uuc] Now Motronic adaptability (and some WOBing) [uuc] Was Eta Power, now 60 MPH in 2nd Re: [uuc] *WOB* Eta power vs running on foot [uuc] Now 60 MPH in 2nd Re: [uuc] E36 M3 Headlight Covers [uuc] JACKASSES AT THE CAR WASH Re: [uuc] Re: rough road = big sway bar ? Re: Re: [uuc] Now Motronic adaptability (and some WOBing) [uuc] [E36] street/track pads Re: [uuc] E36 M3 Headlight Covers RE: [uuc] JACKASSES AT THE CAR WASH ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:43:07 -0500 From: "Michael McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Re: [uuc] Now Motronic adaptability (and some WOBing) I believe motronic does this as well. Thus the need for adaptation before going to a dyno. - -Michael McCoy - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Daley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 9:53 AM Subject: Re: Re: [uuc] Now Motronic adaptability (and some WOBing) > I don't know whether Motronic uses this strategy or not, but the Ford EEC IV and V ECU's adapt in closed loop. The learned correction factor is applied in both closed and open loop. > > Brian Daley > -------Original Message------- > From: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: 03/26/03 10:51 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [uuc] Now Motronic adaptability (and some WOBing) > > > > > I think there is no adaptation that affects full throttle operation as that > is open loop. Idle air, part throttle fuel map, evap purge and cold > enrichment are the adapted settings. > > If anyone has data to disprove this, I will happily change my opinion. > > Gary Derian > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:12:36 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Couvillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Was Eta Power, now 60 MPH in 2nd I just punched the numbers into my calculator. With the stock cirumference tires, I would need to be turning 6212 RPM to hit 60 MPH in 2nd (diff is 3.46, 2nd is 2.2, MPH is 60, constant is 88, all that divided by circumference of 6.48). With a slightly taller tire, I'd need just over 6000. Sooooo, I'm about 750 RPM short with the 5500 RPM rev limiter. The ita chip should be about 6500, so I will have no problem hitting 60 MPH in 2nd with the ita chip. BTW Rob, the 528e's stock 2.93 gear ratio allows a 528e with 5-speed to be turning 5252 RPM in 2nd gear. Hmmmm. . . isn't this the '88 528e's redline? Brad Couvillon - --- "Money, Jack (J.J.)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > John et al, > > My iX with the JC chip can just barely reach 60MPH > in 2nd gear (this is > indicated of course so it really depends on how off > my speedo is) and I have > 3.91 gears, front and rear naturally. ; ) I have a > spreadsheet to > calculate all that stuff but I don't know the gear > ratios in the trans for > our cars. I'm sure someone will chime in with it. > > Jack Money > '89 325iX > #86 JP M3 > www.elephantmotorsports.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:15:18 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Couvillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] *WOB* Eta power vs running on foot RichDo, Don't forget that if you're getting those numbers from the car mags, they're beating the piss out of those cars to turn those numbers! Let's combine the fact that I have heavier-than-stock tires with the 250,000-mile engine -- as well as the fact that I have to shift a 2nd time to hit 60 -- and you'll see that 11 seconds ain't TOO bad! I bet if I had a 2.93, the time would be closer to 9.5 or so, which is still slow as heck but better than 11!! : -) Brad Couvillon - --- "Dorffer, Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Your kidding right?!? Doesn't nearly every modern > car and SUV turn that trick in under 11 seconds? I > bet every new Kia can do it in 11 seconds. > > Later, > > Rich - just yanking Brad's chain. > > 95 M3 - under 11 seconds 5-60 > 90 325is - under 11 seconds 5-60 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:17:13 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Couvillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Now 60 MPH in 2nd Assuming the e30 has the same tire circumference as the e28, a 3.73ed 325i would need about 6700 RPM to hit 60 in 2nd. Brad Couvillon - --- John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, Brad Couvillon wrote: > > > The problem was that I had to shift into 3rd > before hitting 60! > > Needless to say, this severely lengthened my 5 - > 60 time. . . > > I haven't done the math - will the e30 325 (w/3.73) > hit 60 in 2nd > gear? I thought that mine would not until the JC > chip raised the rev > limit to 6900. I may be wrong though. > Fortunately though, 325 0-60 is closer to 7 seconds > than 11.. :) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:31:15 -0500 From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] E36 M3 Headlight Covers I'm waiting for Turner to get some in stock so I can buy a pair, take them apart and turn the boy racer shiny stuff to the argent as used in the original units. Ed 1996 328i Scott Brown wrote: > Or, you could go with the new Hella chrome E36 inserts. They might be > a little hard to get (European availability only?). I think these new > Hella inserts would look a lot better if the surround was black > instead of chrome. > > Scott > 1998 328i sedan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:50:07 -0800 From: "Chris Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] JACKASSES AT THE CAR WASH I'm sure we've all heard of these stories. To that end, my disclaimer is that I wash my cars by hand and am well aware of car wash debauchery. Today, I took my friends (beater) 77 320i to the car wash. He doesn't care. The car has 319,000 miles and is (literally) a beater. That being said, I watched, in amazed horror as one car after another received their version of an 'all cars washed by hand' wash. There sits this grimy hard-bristled brush that he keeps, idle, in a bucket filled with filthy brown (somewhat soapy) water. I watch as the "hand washers" continually use this filthy brush on everyone's car. The brush is used to wash the car by hand. While there, I watched as a Mercedes 600, a Land Rover Discovery and a Porsche 993 all got the 'hand wash treatment'. I inquired, to the manager, if he thought that using that brush on the car might cause some paint damage to the paint. His response? Ready for this? "No sir. We change that water (that the brush was in) every two to three days." !!!!!!!!!!!! Nnnnnnnnooooooooo! If anyone is interested in avoiding this establishment, it is in North Hollywood, CA. one block east of Magnolia and Cahuenga. Chris 89 M3 01 X5 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:46:55 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: rough road = big sway bar ? I just looked this up. The two bars in question are 10mm and 13mm. Percentage wise this is a huge difference, but both are merely bent coathangers. Gary Derian > > Rob Levinson wrote: > > > > > >"1) front 740i Sport sway bar, rear BMW OE Saudi-market super-huge bar > > > >(misplaced size spec right now)" > > It's actually stated as "East European package" or "Poor road package" > > Ben Keys wrote: > > to me that doesn't make a lot of sense. wouldn't a rough road tend to > > mean you'd want the sway bar to be _less_ stiff, > > If you think about it, having a thicker sway bar allows softer springs, > therefore a more comfortable ride on rough roads, while retaining BMW's > handling prowess. > > Scott Miller wrote: > >Still, a bigger rear bar means more oversteer. I fail to see how increased > >oversteer helps on rough roads. > > A bigger rear bar, by itself, promotes oversteer. The same package includes > a larger front bar also, keeping the bias the same. > > ----------------------------------------------------- > BMW Special Tool Rentals > Pay per incident tech support > ----------------------------------------------------- > Brett Anderson > KMS > (440) 338 1650 > www.koalamotorsport.com > > OSS committee member > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 15:02:46 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Re: [uuc] Now Motronic adaptability (and some WOBing) Perhaps it does. No one has any actual info, though. We're talking fuel only here, not spark since there is no feedback mechanism for spark timing. An EEC V is several generations ahead of Motronic 1.0 or 1.1. I've seen info on Motronic 1.3 that does not adapt any full throttle settings. Gary Derian > I believe motronic does this as well. Thus the need for adaptation before > going to a dyno. > > -Michael McCoy > > > I don't know whether Motronic uses this strategy or not, but the Ford EEC > IV and V ECU's adapt in closed loop. The learned correction factor is > applied in both closed and open loop. > > > > Brian Daley > > > > > > I think there is no adaptation that affects full throttle operation as > that > > is open loop. Idle air, part throttle fuel map, evap purge and cold > > enrichment are the adapted settings. > > > > If anyone has data to disprove this, I will happily change my opinion. > > > > Gary Derian > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:6:22 -0600 From: "M Kittock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] [E36] street/track pads I currently have the 'red' performance Pagid pads the Bav. Auto used to carry. A local club member uses them on his E36 M3 and recommended them. I only ran one DE on them and while they worked OK, they had a bit more fade than the Porterfield R4 pads I used on my 944 turbo (when I had it). I've thought of putting the R4's on but while they worked just fine for street driving on the 944 turbo they did squeak a bit... I've thought about the Pagid Sport blue pad also, but like the R4 is spendy. So, what about some of the other pad choices I've seen thrown around? Like the EBC Red, Hawk HP Plus, Carbotech P or P+; these all seem to rated for street and track duty and priced reasonably for track capable pads. Do these wear well? I know Hawk warns of greater rotor wear - what about the others? I know Pagid Race pads can leave deposits on the rotor - what about these? Any other choices I'm missing? I hope to run 4 DEs this year (only did one last year). So I'm not looking for a pure race pad, but one I can drive on year round. But I'm not opposed to swapping pads before and after events, just a but lazy about it... I appreciate whatever experience with these you can share. I know this topic has been discussed at length, I probably even save some of those discussions - but that would be on my pc that got hit by lightning :( Please reply directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] TIA Mark Kittock '96 328i Sport Pkg; 17"OZ,H&R Sport, X-brace,Turner Motorsport bars ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:11:41 -0600 From: "M Kittock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] E36 M3 Headlight Covers I've been thinking of upgrading to euro lights and was intrigued by the Hella units Turner has - until I noticed the "full chrome" treatment. Unless they offer a black background like stock, I'll just get the ZKW euro assemblies. Mark Kittock '96 328i Sport Pkg; 17"OZ,H&R Sport, X-brace,Turner Motorsport bars > [Original Message] > From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I'm waiting for Turner to get some in stock so I can buy a pair, take > them apart and turn the boy racer shiny stuff to the argent as used in > the original units. > > Ed > > 1996 328i > > Scott Brown wrote: > > > Or, you could go with the new Hella chrome E36 inserts. They might be > > a little hard to get (European availability only?). I think these new > > Hella inserts would look a lot better if the surround was black > > instead of chrome. > > > > Scott > > 1998 328i sedan > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 15:35:31 -0500 (EST) From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] JACKASSES AT THE CAR WASH That's OK. The majority of the people I work with have _never_ waxed their cars - and these are definitely not 300k mile beaters. People just don't know any better. I had to teach my 32 year old friend how to wash his car a few weeks ago. - - John S. --- On Wed 03/26, Chris Marino < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: From: Chris Marino [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:50:07 -0800 Subject: [uuc] JACKASSES AT THE CAR WASH I'm sure we've all heard of these stories. To that end, my disclaimer<br>is that I wash my cars by hand and am well aware of car wash debauchery.<br><br>Today, I took my friends (beater) 77 320i to the car wash. He doesn't<br>care. The car has 319,000 miles and is (literally) a beater. That<br>being said, I watched, in amazed horror as one car after another<br>received their version of an 'all cars washed by hand' wash.<br><br>There sits this grimy hard-bristled brush that he keeps, idle, in a<br>bucket filled with filthy brown (somewhat soapy) water. I watch as the<br>"hand washers" continually use this filthy brush on everyone's car. The<br>brush is used to wash the car by hand. While there, I watched as a<br>Mercedes 600, a Land Rover Discovery and a Porsche 993 all got the 'hand<br>wash treatment'. <br><br>I inquired, to the manager, if he thought that using that brush on the<br>car might cause some paint damage to the paint. His response?<br><br>Ready for this? <br><br>"No sir. We change that water (that the brush was in) every two to<br>three days."<br><br>!!!!!!!!!!!!<br><br>Nnnnnnnnooooooooo!<br><br>If anyone is interested in avoiding this establishment, it is in North<br>Hollywood, CA. one block east of Magnolia and Cahuenga.<br><br>Chris<br>89 M3<br>01 X5<br><br> _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6248 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . 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