[uucdigest] Tuesday, June 10 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6445
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: RE: [uuc] Survey - used lease car v. used "rental' car >Subject: [uuc] has your V1 ever.... [uuc] Re: Survey - used lease car v. used "rental' car RE: [uuc] Re: Anyone up for a driver school? Re: [uuc] has your V1 ever.... RE: [uuc] Survey - used lease car v. used "rental' car RE: [uuc] has your V1 ever.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:54:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Joe Tan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Survey - used lease car v. used "rental' car I am going to have to diagree here on the gereralization that all lease retured cars are bad. Granted, buying the former rental are a no no. But regular leased cars can be a good used car buy if you use some common sense. You have to remember that when you return your leased car they inspect for any wear and tear out of the ordinary use and if the car is worn beyond normal use the leasee have to pay the penalty for it. So it's on the best interest of the leasee to take good care of the car. There is another scenario where a lot of people who lease a car do plan to buy it at the end of the lease and might not work out that way and end up returning it at the end. I have pucrchase 2 leased retured car for a very good price and had driven them about 120k mi combined and never had any major problem with either cars. My advise is to inspect any used car thoroughly for any abnormal wear according to the car's age and if possible alway have a shop do a pre-purchase inspection before you take the plunge. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:58:30 -0400 From: "Jeff K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: >Subject: [uuc] has your V1 ever.... He might have just been aiming it, waiting for a clear shot at someone. Thus, if he hadn't pulled the trigger, your V1 wouldn't have picked anything up. Mine seems to have caught every laser aimed towad me (which were actually pickups of residual painting of the guy in front of me). >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:56:45 -0700 (PDT) >From: paul t <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [uuc] has your V1 ever.... > >has your V1 ever missed a laser radar? this happened >to me twice, on the same road, first time i thought it >might be a fluke, but it happened again just the other >day. > >i was going the speed limit (35mph) down a straight >stretch of road behind a couple of cars, no semis, we >were all nicely spaced apart, and noticed a cop on a >bike ahead, and since i wasn't speeding, i wasn't >worried. i looked to my V1 (version 1.7) to see what >gun he was shooting at us. so i wait, no warning yet.. >and as i get closer, no beeps, and closer, no beeps, >until i had passed him, and me seeing him shooting >what looks like a laser radar. now this is the second >time thats happened and it's starting to worry me. the >V1 must pickup something after the instant-on is >triggered 3-4x right? the first time that it happened >was practically the scenario. > >i know my laser works because i detect chevy blazers >well, and even sometimes the E46. i have my v1 >hardwired next to my rear view mirror. could this mean >that i need to upgrade to 1.8? would this is this the >laser that "Generation 3 laser warning" that >valentine1.com refers to? > >just carious if you guys have experienced the same >thing. > > >thanks, >paul _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:03:02 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Re: Survey - used lease car v. used "rental' car Dennis, I would not buy a used rental car. Let me tell you a little story. It was maybe 1980. My boss's boss was an old German lady who was very opinionated, stuborn and frugal. She knew that I was a car nut and asked me to go car shopping with her at the used car sales lots. She specifically wanted a Ford Fairmont wagon (don't ask why). I brought gloves and a rag. At each car in which she was interested, I opened the hood. The cars ranged in mileage from maybe 10K to 30K. I could find no evidence that any fluid had ever been changed - oil, coolant, brake - all quite filthy. Still had Ford oil filters on them - I can't believe that the rental car agencies would all buy Ford filters instead of some less expensive aftermarket filters. The air filters were all dirty to the point where I couldn't see how air even got through them. I advised her not to buy those cars. She thanked me for my time. Then she got a mechanic from our automotive vehicle shop to accompany her back to the same lots to look at the same cars. He said they looked fine, and she bought one. And she had problems with it for years after. Man, am I glad I didn't recommend that she buy one of those cars! Now, some of her problems may have been because it was a Fairmont. But some could have been because the factory recommended service was not done. I know I'm just a sample of 1, but I don't trust the rental car companies to follow any kind of a maintenance schedule. As for the CPO cars, they cost more because they're supposed to get an inspection. They also come with a warranty. Several listers here and elsewhere have reported that they found things out of spec on their recently-purchased CPO cars, so they really should not have ever passed the inspection. So I think it is safe to say that you'd get a warranty, and if you're lucky, maybe you'd even get a car that was inspected. If the warranty is worth the higher price, buy a CPO car. I'd take a used car with 50K miles, records and a known history above any other source. Just my 02 cents. Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA >Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:07:48 -0400 >From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [uuc] Survey - used lease car v. used "rental' car > >Since I posted the article from the NY Times on the increasing popularity of >sales of former-lease cars, particularly through certified pre-owned >programs from the manufacturer, a fellow list member and I have had a >friendly, off-list debate over the merits of buying such a car (e.g., >factory Certified-Pre-Owned, off-lease) versus buying one from a car rental >company, like Hertz or Avis. > >Both cars would have followed the manufacturer's recommend maintenance >schedule, though we discussed whether manufacturers have lengthened >time/mileage between scheduled services to (a) reduce costs for those that >offer free scheduled maintenance and make the costs of ownership look better >in periodicals, or (b) because cars are better designed and built these >days. I think it's probably a large portion of the latter with a good >leavening of the latter. > >ASSUME that the off-lease car would have something like 50k miles on it, >being 3 years old, while the off-rental vehicle would have something like >20k miles on it, all put onto it in one year, and each car is priced >realistically; e.g., the price for each is a a good buy. > >Here's the query -- which car is likely to have been treated better, and >which will likely, ultimately, to last longer? <snip> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:02:51 -0400 From: "Money, Jack (J.J.)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Re: Anyone up for a driver school? It varies by club but I *believe* BMW CCA events no longer allow convertibles without approved roll over protection. I'm not sure of all the details though as I have never cared enough. I personally would never ride in a convertible without a properly designed and constructed roll cage. And since I've never seen a car like this at a BMW CCA event I have never worried about it. I'm sure there are people who take Spec Miata's and other types with good roll cages, I've just never seen it at a BMW CCA event. Some say I'm silly to think this way.....well, it's a free country and I'm a volunteer! Jack Money '89 325iX '88 M3 #86 JP Elephant Motorsports - -----Original Message----- From: Jeff K [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 1:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Re: Anyone up for a driver school? I'm curious; do you all allow cabrios without rollbars participate? I'd love to do something like this but every last one I've seen in this area (CT, mostly at Lime Rock) requires an aftermarket rollbar on my cabrio, something there's no WAY I'm going to add on. I'm just curious if this is pervasive or I just happen to live in liabilitylawland. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:06:45 -0700 From: Kurt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] has your V1 ever.... Dorffer, Rich wrote: >Also, how do you know he pulled the trigger? Most policemen have enough visual acuity >and perception of speed (tongue slightly in cheek here...) to identify those intended >speeders they plan to shoot with their laser. > I spoke with a State Police officer in Utah and he told me that officers must show that they can estimate a vehicles speed to with in 5 miles per hour before they are allowed to use radar/laser. Their policy is that the rader/laser should be used to confirm their estimate, not used indiscriminately. So it is possible that the officer simply did not pull the trigger, because you were obviously not going fast enough for him to worry about you. Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:16:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Yip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Survey - used lease car v. used "rental' car You're correct - all lease return vehicles aren't bad but many have hidden faults that won't appear until the car is out of warranty. However with the growing leasing demand, the number of abused lease vehicles is acutally declining b/c today's leasors are doing so b/c they can't afford the car except as a lease instead of leasing so as not to own the POS at the end of the payment term. OTOH, the fact that the leasors can't afford the car is even worse b/c maintenance suffers tremendously since it's a lease car - who cares if you don't change the oil during the lease term. A buddy used to be a dealer-tech - whenever I'd visit, he'd point out some of the lease vehicles which were generally trashed. When they were returned, they'd been fully detailed and all outward signs of abuse were invisible. An example of taking advantage of a lease-vehicle is a gent that leased a 1.8 turbo vehicle and added several thousand dollars worth of motor "upgrades" that turned the rather mundane car into a screamer. Now that it's time to reutrn the car, all those mods (which were merely bolt-ons) have magically disappeared and the car now looks completely stock. Even a pre-purchase inspection wouldn't reveal that kind of use, er ab-use. I agree that a good pre-purchase inspection is almost mandatory on a lease-return or rental-return but still bear in mind - caveat emptor. If I buy a used car, I want to know a bit of history about the vehicle and TEPO (the evil previous owner). Often times, just meeting TEPO will tell volumes about the vehicle in question. - --- Joe Tan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am going to have to diagree here on the > gereralization that all lease retured cars are bad. > Granted, buying the former rental are a no no. But > regular leased cars can be a good used car buy if you > use some common sense. You have to remember that when > you return your leased car they inspect for any wear > and tear out of the ordinary use and if the car is > worn beyond normal use the leasee have to pay the > penalty for it. So it's on the best interest of the > leasee to take good care of the car. There is another > scenario where a lot of people who lease a car do plan > to buy it at the end of the lease and might not work > out that way and end up returning it at the end. I > have pucrchase 2 leased retured car for a very good > price and had driven them about 120k mi combined and > never had any major problem with either cars. My > advise is to inspect any used car thoroughly for any > abnormal wear according to the car's age and if > possible alway have a shop do a pre-purchase > inspection before you take the plunge. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:17:04 -0700 (PDT) From: paul t <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] has your V1 ever.... >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:08:01 -0400 >From: "Rob Levinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: [uuc] has your V1 ever.... > >By its very nature, the lidar is a focused beam. >Unless your V1 is >within the narrow "spray pattern" of the laser beam, >it will not pick >it up. Additionally, laser does not "bounce around" >in the same way >as radar. > >Compare this to radar which has a much broader >pattern, so you can >pick it up from oblique angles. Radar bounces all >over the place >(relatively speaking) which is why you can get a good >reading even >after passing the radar source. > >cropped... so in other words, my V1 won't pick up the lidar/laser unless it's shot directly at my car? if thats the case, then wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the radar detector? if you've been tagged with the laser the same time the V1 goes off, game is over... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6445 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . 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