[uucdigest] Thursday, July 31 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6620
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Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: RE: [uuc] M2 RE: [uuc] M2 Re: [uuc] cheap, small, fast, good value BMWs [uuc] Re: <OT> Trailer tire question Re: [uuc] cheap, small, fast, good value BMWs RE: [uuc]M2 Re: [uuc] Damn CARFAX Re: [uuc] M2 [uuc] <e34> Melted Headlights, thinking about a Hella H4 Conversion [uuc] E46 center console ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:45:24 -0400 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] M2 > Actually, I believe sales of the E30 M3 exceeded BMW's > expectations ... they > only needed to produce 500 a year to qualify the car for > racing. So final > sales doubled or tripled original plans ... but even then, the car was > destined for cult status and given the way the prices are > holding up, the > demand for such a vehicle seems to be rather healthy It certainly did. BMW expected it might be hard to sell the 500 necessary. Instead, they sold almost 5000 in the US alone, with about 17,000 world-wide over 5 years, which is dwarfed by E36 M3 sales. > > Price was definitely a factor, especially relative to the > 325i that was $5k > cheaper and nearly as fast from a 0-60 mph sprint and sales and resale > values did suffer from the '90-'92 recession. The price > differential is > still there ... that said, name a car of a similar vintage that has > maintained 33% of its original sticker ??? I thought the price differential was even more. The M3 was about 1/5 second faster in the, yet agian, pointless measure of 0-60. The M3 will really start to distance itself at higher speeds. > > But in my humble view, the vast majority of buyers would have > chosen the > 325i even if the two cars cost the same ... the 325i would > have gotten all > the buyers that prefer slush boxes and probably 100% of the buyers not > interested in the sports package ... let's face it, there are > a minority of > drivers that actually prefer/enjoy the buzzbox nature of a 4 > cyl engine > whose power band begins post 4000 rpm and with the rear view mirror > constantly shaking when the car is new ... maybe a decent > amount of folks on > this list, but the percent of people even willing to consider > such a car > couldn't have been north of 10% of the 3-series buyers at the time, > regardless of price. I.e. only us real maniacs would even want an M3. But that was fine, as the car wasn't made to be a sales success, only to homologate touring cars. That's one of the reasons so many people hold it in such high regard. I think the same will hold true in 2007 if BMW tries to make a similar car. > > That said, count me as part of the minority. Wife tolerates > the car because > she still likes me ... 3-yr old daughter likes the vrooooom vroommmm > > Peter > '88 m3 > '90 325ic Lee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:53:07 -0400 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] M2 > WAY too many E36 M3's on the roads IMHO. Could the reason > that you don't > see as many E46's is because they are not as old as the E36? > When the E36's came around, there were alot more E30 M3's on the road. > After about 3 or 4 years, the E30's almost disappeared. I > think the E36's > will be more prevalent due to the fact that they built more of them. Of course there are so many E36's on the road. It's a fantastic car. It's the perfect blend of performance and basic daily practicality. On top of that, it's damn fast. That being said, everybody (on both sides of the pond) seems to indicate that the E46 is the best of the M3s, whereas previsouly there was a rift with US press praising the E36 & Europe praising the E30. Of course, the economy is slower as well........ What was the first year for the E46, 2001? They've been on sale about 1/2 as long now, but I still see waaaaaaay more E36's--specially here in the yuppie bubble of N. Atlanta, which seems reccessionless. I don't think it took 3-4 years for the E30's to disappear.....didn't they sell more E36 M3s the first year than in 4 years of selling the E30? > > Kirk A. Gilchrist > EURO-WERKS / Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo Service and Repair > 8 South Highland St. / Winchester, KY 40391 / 859-745-0125 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 888-522-0271 toll free Lee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:48:09 +0100 From: "Andrew Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] cheap, small, fast, good value BMWs Gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes about the lightweight M2: "You and about 5 other people would buy that car. The Lotus Elyse is available for that crowd. The realities of today's market demand a larger car. I used to want a 2000 lb 2 liter car, but I am happier with my 3800 lb 3.6 liter car when I'm playing SUV tag in traffic." Yes, but that doesn't mean the market doesn't exist; not everyone has to deploy 315 M Power bhp to ward off SUVs, Gary :). The Elise has been an extremely popular alternative to the ubiquitous used Porsche or E30 M3, and a bigger dose of practicality from the likes of BMW would widen the market considerably. It is only the badge snobbery of the European car markets - no better or worse than any other, really - that has stymied the sales of the plusher, ICE- and A/C-equipped GM Elise variant, a car called the Opel Speedster. (or Vauxhall VX220.) BMW would not suffer this. Lee Robinson makes the point that the Lancers and Imprezas of this world would make a small, high-powered BMW irrelevant, let alone attractive, and it's a good point. But the Lancer and Impreza have both been around for a while now, and are both 4WD. The capability factor is high, but the fun factor is lower, and dropping. A friend of mine who runs an Impreza STi often complains of the discomfort, poor economy and dreadful driveline shunt when driving at four tenths, which is most of the time for him. And Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> says: "The reason the E30 M3 never sold well is that is cost THIRTY-FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS IN 1988. That's a TON of money for a car like that. Compare that to the E36 M3, which cost the same amount seven years later." Another reason the E30 M3 didn't sell was that there was nothing else like it at the time, not in any market - only the mid-80s 4WD turbo saloons from Japan were comparable on power. The production volume was also very low. In 1994, a well-equipped UK-market 318is cost �22k. In 2003, a very well-equipped 318i, with more power and torque, more safety, more gears, more economy, more standard equipment and much better air conditioning cost �22k. In another nine years' time, it will probably cost �22k. <OT> Something I must share, as it's unlikely to make headline news anywhere but locally: some guy got dropped out of an airplane at 60,000 feet above Dover in southern England, with a pair of wings strapped to his back. He glided all the way to France. Non-stop. At 220 mph. Andy T ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:18:39 -1000 From: Jay G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: <OT> Trailer tire question camber plates maybe? ;) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Zmiewski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Thanks to all of you who gave me advice. Its been helpful. In retrospect I > do think the pressure does need to be higher- the old tires were wearing on > the outer edges- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:46:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] cheap, small, fast, good value BMWs What did Icarus say to Nike at the Louvre? I just flew in from 60k feet over England, and boy are my arms tired. Jason Thanks for sharing. - --- Andrew Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > <OT> Something I must share, as it's unlikely to > make headline news anywhere > but locally: some guy got dropped out of an airplane > at 60,000 feet above > Dover in southern England, with a pair of wings > strapped to his back. He > glided all the way to France. Non-stop. At 220 > mph. > > Andy T > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:04:35 -0700 From: "KKiely" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc]M2 Concerning weight reduction efforts. Back a few years ago the local chapter had a chance to tour the Palo Alto BMW R&D center. On display in an engineering room were a lightweight hood made of PVC and a carbon fiber drive shaft. - -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:03:21 -0500 From: Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Damn CARFAX Let me know what you found out - for grins I ran a CarFax on my 330i and the first item is: Exported from: Bahrain Imported to: Charleston, SC I am pretty sure my car was never in Bahrain (it was purchased new with no miles) and it sure looks strange on the CarFax :-) Dennis 330i silver/black/manual/sp/pp/xenon/cd At 10:56 AM 07/30/2003 -0400, you wrote: >So I found a way to get a free CARFAX on my Saab. I wonder how you get >mistakes taken off that crap. Says the car was involved in an accident, >which it was not. [EMAIL PROTECTED]@%#!#@@[EMAIL PROTECTED]@[EMAIL PROTECTED] I did >at one point run off the >road into some mud & needed to be pulled out, but the car suffered no damage >other the splash shield which I replaced. It didn't need to be replaced, >but one part was cracked out so I fixed it. > >Damage was reported as minor & would cost over $500. Hmmmmm....let's see >$48 for the parts & about 1 hour to put them in (ok, so most people would've >had to pay for the labor). Again @[EMAIL PROTECTED]@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Now I have to explain to a prospective buyer that CARFAX is full of freakin' >crap. Since so many uneducated folks use it as the gospel, I'm prolly >screwed out of at least $2000 bucks on sale price. > >Anyway, here's the link if any of you are interested....... >http://beta.kpix.com/xtra/focus/shopping/used_cars.html > >It's the full CARFAX report, not just the crappy little promo "CARFAX has >found 11 things you should know about...." It's only good through tomorrow, >so get on it. > >Lee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:59:29 -0400 From: "J. Howe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] M2 I believe the 1988 535is stickered for about $37,500 with the LSD option. Justin > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:15:55 -0400 > From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [uuc] M2 > > What other cars could one buy in 1988 for $35,000? > > Gary Derian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:00:01 -0500 From: "Karl Zemlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] <e34> Melted Headlights, thinking about a Hella H4 Conversion Per the previous thread, I put 80W 9006 and my lights melted when stuck for 90 minutes in stop-and-go traffic. The E34 is new to me, and my e28 (for sale soon) has Hella E-Code headlights. I already bought standard sealed beams for the e28 with the intention of selling the Hella's separately. The chrome trim rings are very close, if not exactly the same diameter, so I'm thinking that if I take the melted low-beams from the E34 and take them apart - cut them up, perhaps I could fashion enough of a support for the Hella lights that I could epoxy the H4 lamps to the cut-up ellipsoid body. FWIW, I am a mechanical engineer with several years experience as a machinist, a fair collection of power tools in the garage and access to a lathe and milling machine if things get in deep. If I do this I will document the process for others to share. Assuming that works, that is only part of the battle. I would need (want) to do the wiring so the diagnostic system is not always yelling at me about my high beams. If I convert the existing system from 2 filaments to 4, will the computer be pissed? If so, does anyone know what options I have to wire the additional high-beam filaments so the computer is happy? I don't expect it to know if there is a bulb out. I'm thinking about something like a relay in parallel with the existing filaments - maybe even two - a baby one switching a big one so the impact on the existing circuit is minimal. It doesn't seem to mind the 100W bulbs currently in the high-beam sockets, so the circuit is not real picky about higher current draw - maybe it would be fine with a big relay in parallel with the current hi-beam lamps. Neil in Lafayette - you can probably guess how this would impact you. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:27:02 -0700 From: "Marvin Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] E46 center console Original postings: Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:10:54 +0100 From: "Andrew Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] E46 center armrest replacement panel Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: "A friend with an E46 M3 wants to rid himself of the center armrest and said he's heard of a replacement panel to fill the resulting hole. I've looked at the ETK, either it's not listed or I just can't ID it. Anyone know the part number?" Early, low-spec E46s were available without armrest - the part I found is described as a "short console" and is for all E46 cars, including M. The numbers are 51 16 8 234 154 for black, 51 16 8 234 155 for beige, and 51 16 8 248 507 for grey. The rest of the bits should just transfer over. Andy T ======================================== Does anyone have a short console without armrest (must be black) that they would like to sell? It's for a 2003 330i, located in the San Francisco, East Bay, area. Marvin ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6620 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . 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